Garage for Power Trac and Shop

   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #41  
Bob,

My workshop is 24ft wide and 30ft deep. It's a good size for working on projects and storing my tools. I don't park my tractor or anything else in there as it gets crowded real fast as it is. Most of what I do is wood projects, but I also do some metal work. While it would be nice to have seperate areas for both, I don't think it's really practical.

My walls are 12ft tall and that is really nice. I was ripping some plywood the other day and will be working with sheets of MDF today, and just being able to handle 8ft lengths without hitting the ceiling is very nice. If you've done any woodworking in a garage, you know what I mean. LOL

Another advantage to the 12ft walls is how much storage I have for shelves. One wall is all shelves above my workbenches. I don't have doors on the shelves so that I can look up there and know exactly what I have and where it is. I really like that.

My lighting is done with four 8ft florencent double lights. I really prefer 8ft lights over 4ft ones. They just seem to give better coverage to me.

One wall is my workbench and shelves, the other wall is where I store all my tools. Table saw, sander, planer, router table and things like that. Then when I need them, I just pull them out to the middle where I have lots of room to work. Otherwise, the middle is clear and open. I really like having the open space available for projects.

The twelve foot walls allow me to have a nice lean-to on the side of the building. This is where I store my "stuff." The fourwheeler is out there with the lawn mower, bikes and all sorts of outdoor tools. I'm amazed at how much storage I have under there!!

I don't have any windows and don't really like windows in a shop. They always seem to get broken or covered in dust where I've seen them. I also don't like the loss of wall space. Shelveing and storage is more important to me then a window. Be sure to include at least one walk through door 3ft wide and a big entry door. My big door is a 10ft wide by 10ft tall roll up door. I like the roll up doors over other kinds because of it's minimal space requriements, ease of opening and decent seal from the elements for a very reasonable price.

My walls are covered in OSB. It's cheap at under $7 a sheet right now and makes for hanging stuff real easy. My floors are concrete and I consider that mandatory. My previous shop had gravel on the floor and I hated it. Made working on vehicles or just about anything awkward at best. I planned on putting concrete down at a later date, but found it dificult to get around to it. Do it from the beginning and you will never regret it. With a concrete foundation, stick building becomes my prefered way to build a structure. Of course, you can go steal with a cement foudation too. Both are excelent options that will never rot on you like wood poles will.

Be sure to include a shop sink. Mine is used all the time and a must have. If it's a code issue, then run the plumbing for it or at least a cold water line and sneak it in later. You can always drain a sink into the woods if you have to. Be sure to include a water spicket. I gurantee you that you'll appreciate it once you have it available. I also have an air hose dedicated for outside use. It gets used as much as my inside line, sometimes more. Wether it's airing up a tire, or blowing out my radiator, it's extremly handy.

If you never plan on having a welder, or learning to weld, run the wiring for it anyway. You can put the plug in the wall near the breaker box for a very minimal cost real easy when running your other electrical lines.

Run a dedicated 20amp line for you air compressor. It's always on when working on projects and if you have some other high demand power tool on the same line, it will trip the circut if the both turn on at the same time.

I prefer lots of single box outlets over doubles. Just easier to wire and I put them in every four feet. Mine are also four feet off the ground so that I can get to them easily over my workbench. At four feet, they line up good for the OSB siding too!!!

Here's a picture of my workbench in my shop.

Eddie
 

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   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #42  
Just to point out that the outlet pictured is not "code correct", as the builder himself mentions. It isn't too smart to mix voltages in a single outlet.

Tim_in_CT said:
Here is a link to a shop that is completely out of control. Click on the "new workshop" link:

Highland House

You gotta check it out just to look at his museum-quality yuppie "workbench" (I could see some silicon valley types using it is a desk in an executive office). This reminds me of when I bought a nice maple butcher-block style workbench top from grizzly. It was so beautiful that I had to purposely whack it with a hammer to make the first dent to get rid of the "new car" paranoa. Fine furnature belongs in the house; workbenches should be heavily constructed and roughly finished so you won't be afraid to use them. It cracks me up on the woodworking forum when people craft these beautiful work neches and spend hours and hours giving them the perfect finish.

He does have some clever ideas (although I would have embedded the dust collection piping in the floor using 6" PVC before he poured the concrete slab). The part of real interest is how he wired it. This is a pretty nifty concept (2 110V 15amp + 1 220V 20 amp + 1 220V 30 amp outlet, spaced evenly all around the shop). I personally would have just put 30 amp plugs on all my tools, and would have put a 110V 20 amp outlet instead of the 220 V 20 amp... it is good to have separate circuits right next to each other so machines you use simultaneously won't overload the circuit. All my 220V machines have 30amp twistlock plugs.

BSoutlet.jpg
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop
  • Thread Starter
#43  
EddieWalker said:
Bob,

My workshop is 24ft wide and 30ft deep. It's a good size for working on projects and storing my tools. I don't park my tractor or anything else in there as it gets crowded real fast as it is. Most of what I do is wood projects, but I also do some metal work. While it would be nice to have seperate areas for both, I don't think it's really practical.

My walls are 12ft tall and that is really nice. I was ripping some plywood the other day and will be working with sheets of MDF today, and just being able to handle 8ft lengths without hitting the ceiling is very nice. If you've done any woodworking in a garage, you know what I mean. LOL

Another advantage to the 12ft walls is how much storage I have for shelves. One wall is all shelves above my workbenches. I don't have doors on the shelves so that I can look up there and know exactly what I have and where it is. I really like that.

My lighting is done with four 8ft florencent double lights. I really prefer 8ft lights over 4ft ones. They just seem to give better coverage to me.

One wall is my workbench and shelves, the other wall is where I store all my tools. Table saw, sander, planer, router table and things like that. Then when I need them, I just pull them out to the middle where I have lots of room to work. Otherwise, the middle is clear and open. I really like having the open space available for projects.

The twelve foot walls allow me to have a nice lean-to on the side of the building. This is where I store my "stuff." The fourwheeler is out there with the lawn mower, bikes and all sorts of outdoor tools. I'm amazed at how much storage I have under there!!

I don't have any windows and don't really like windows in a shop. They always seem to get broken or covered in dust where I've seen them. I also don't like the loss of wall space. Shelveing and storage is more important to me then a window. Be sure to include at least one walk through door 3ft wide and a big entry door. My big door is a 10ft wide by 10ft tall roll up door. I like the roll up doors over other kinds because of it's minimal space requriements, ease of opening and decent seal from the elements for a very reasonable price.

My walls are covered in OSB. It's cheap at under $7 a sheet right now and makes for hanging stuff real easy. My floors are concrete and I consider that mandatory. My previous shop had gravel on the floor and I hated it. Made working on vehicles or just about anything awkward at best. I planned on putting concrete down at a later date, but found it dificult to get around to it. Do it from the beginning and you will never regret it. With a concrete foundation, stick building becomes my prefered way to build a structure. Of course, you can go steal with a cement foudation too. Both are excelent options that will never rot on you like wood poles will.

Be sure to include a shop sink. Mine is used all the time and a must have. If it's a code issue, then run the plumbing for it or at least a cold water line and sneak it in later. You can always drain a sink into the woods if you have to. Be sure to include a water spicket. I gurantee you that you'll appreciate it once you have it available. I also have an air hose dedicated for outside use. It gets used as much as my inside line, sometimes more. Wether it's airing up a tire, or blowing out my radiator, it's extremly handy.

If you never plan on having a welder, or learning to weld, run the wiring for it anyway. You can put the plug in the wall near the breaker box for a very minimal cost real easy when running your other electrical lines.

Run a dedicated 20amp line for you air compressor. It's always on when working on projects and if you have some other high demand power tool on the same line, it will trip the circut if the both turn on at the same time.

I prefer lots of single box outlets over doubles. Just easier to wire and I put them in every four feet. Mine are also four feet off the ground so that I can get to them easily over my workbench. At four feet, they line up good for the OSB siding too!!!

Here's a picture of my workbench in my shop.

Eddie
Eddie, thanks for the tips. I am planning on three double windows, but after your comments, I may reduce that.

I am putting outlets every 4 feet, plus about six 220 volt, 30 amp outlets. Can you use 30 amp circuit breakers on a machine that only pulls 10 amps? Sounds a little flaky. I am using 10 guage wire on these outlets, so I can switch from 20 to 30 pretty easily. All of the equipment that I own or plan to own or would like to own only needs 220 volt at 20 amps. I can't use an arc welder because of my pacemaker. I am learning to gas weld.
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #44  
Dear Bob,

I think that there is usually a difference between what you can do, and what you might want to do.

You can plug a 220V device in an outlet that provides 30amps @ 220V. You might want to check that your device has a fuse, a breaker, or thermal overload switch to limit the potential damage.

In general, if you have a saw that draws 10amps, and shipped with a 220V NEMA 6-30 plug, it should function just fine in a circuit with a 30A breaker, because some electrical engineer has already thought through the malfunctions. In general, you want the load and the breaker to match.

McMaster Carr has a nice discussion of the various types of plugs and outlets. Type in NEMA in the search box.

I hope this helps.

All the best,

Peter

BobRip said:
Eddie, thanks for the tips. I am planning on three double windows, but after your comments, I may reduce that.

I am putting outlets every 4 feet, plus about six 220 volt, 30 amp outlets. Can you use 30 amp circuit breakers on a machine that only pulls 10 amps? Sounds a little flaky. I am using 10 guage wire on these outlets, so I can switch from 20 to 30 pretty easily. All of the equipment that I own or plan to own or would like to own only needs 220 volt at 20 amps. I can't use an arc welder because of my pacemaker. I am learning to gas weld.
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop
  • Thread Starter
#45  
ponytug said:
Dear Bob,

There is always a difference between what you can do, and what you might want to do.

You can plug a 220V device in an outlet that provides 30amps @ 220V. You might want to check that your device has a fuse, a breaker, or thermal overload switch to limit the potential damage.

In general, if you have a saw that draws 10amps, and shipped with a 220V NEMA 6-30 plug, it should function just fine in a circuit with a 30A breaker, because some electrical engineer has already thought through the malfunctions.

I hope this helps.



All the best,

Peter
McMaster Carr has a nice discussion of the various types of plugs and outlets. Type in NEMA in the search box.

Yes, it helps. Thanks. I will start with 20 amp breakers and outlets with 10 guage wire and change the outlet and breaker if needed. If course I could also wire this at 120.
On my standard outlets, I will have two breakers per wall. Alternate outlets will be on different breakers.
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #46  
This brings up an interesting question...

If you want to match the circuit to the appliance, why don't we do that with lamps?

If you have a 30 amp circuit with a 10 amp appliance, in theory, the appliance could burst into flames before tripping the breaker. Same thing happens with lamp cords all the time.
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #47  
MossRoad said:
If you want to match the circuit to the appliance, why don't we do that with lamps?

CB are installed to protect house wiring, not the device that is plugged in. Nothing wrong with plugging a 10 amp machine into a 20 amp circuit. It is unlikely that a circuit breaker will prevent significant damage from occurring to your machinery. Motors should be built with thermal overloads to provide the on-machine protection against internal faults and high temperatures.

If a 10 amp load "bursts into flames", it is highly probably that it will cause a direct short, tricpping the CB regardless of the load rating!

Strangely enough, some manuals for machinery is written to speciify "only plug into a 20 amp circuit".
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #48  
Tim_in_CT said:
Strangely enough, some manuals for machinery is written to speciify "only plug into a 20 amp circuit".

That is usually because there is a starting surge or a locked motor draw that that would trip a 15 Amp breaker.

Ken
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #49  
no, my point is that my Grizzly Edge sander specifically warns about plugging into a circuit protected by a higher breaker. It specifically says to use a a maximum 220V 15 amp circuit. It states:

Never use a larger circuit breaker then stated (15 amp 220V), or you will subtantially increase your risk of fire

The irony of this is the magnetic switch on the unit has a built in overload that is set to trip at 15 amps. So their concern is for the 8' length of cord from the plug that is wired directly into the magnetic switch?
 
   / Garage for Power Trac and Shop #50  
Tim_in_CT said:
no, my point is that my Grizzly Edge sander specifically warns about plugging into a circuit protected by a higher breaker. It specifically says to use a a maximum 220V 15 amp circuit. It states:

Never use a larger circuit breaker then stated (15 amp 220V), or you will subtantially increase your risk of fire

The irony of this is the magnetic switch on the unit has a built in overload that is set to trip at 15 amps. So their concern is for the 8' length of cord from the plug that is wired directly into the magnetic switch?

Yeah. The cord will burn up before the breaker will trip in the circuit panel. That is the cause of many house fires, with regards to lamps and small space heaters. Where I work, there are several dozen space heaters. Those things will burn up the cord or melt power strips without tripping any breakers.

Anyhow, I don't want to hijack the thread, but since we were discussing wiring a garage and shop, I thought it fit. :rolleyes:
 

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