Garage/Workshop Critique

[MarkV]

Nice drawing and a good start to a plan. Like others I would try and locate the air compressor and dust collector out of the work area. Possibly in a separate attached enclosure off the outside back wall. For me I would want the table saw more centered in the floor plan with at least a 12’ in feed and out feed area, 16’ would be better. In slab outlets for the table saw and jointer are nice. My band saw would be limited if it were built into a bench. It is one of the tools that works very well on casters so it can be pulled out for specific projects and tucked away when not in use. I use a larger work table that doubles as an out feed table for the table saw. The miter saw is another tool that needs as much in feed and out feed area as possible. I would center it on the work bench.

The Tauton Press workshop book that Cliff mentioned is worth the price. It has a great deal of information and some shops featured that will make you jealous.

MarkV

 

[sneaky_pete]

Like many others I will say that it is worth any cost for the unbelievable luxury of having your workshop completely separate from your garage. Never having to put away a partly-finished project just to park a car, among many other benefits. My biggest shop problem now is getting my sons to move their projects farther inside the shop away from the bay doors so I can still get my stuff in and out.

Truly, you won't be sorry later, even if it is a financial sacrifice now.

Pete

 

[hitekcountry]

Frank

I didn't see anything about your door height. The biggest mistake I made on my garage was going with standard 7’ high doors. That was fine for everything I owned at the time, but I later bought my L35 and my truck with a rack. Neither will fit under 7’. Be sure your doors are tall enough to accommodate anything you might want to put in there in the future.

See photo
Fred

 

[GEB]

Also you can never have to many AC outlets!
I ran all my conduit outside the walls for easy access.
My shop looks good with the conduit exposed...neat job helps.
I also have (9) 220V outlets, makes it really nice
to roll my mig welder & plasma cutter anywhere needed.
And yes go with the tallest over head door that you can.
Ceiling fans are a plus.
Gene

 

[fenneran]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the great advice. Sorry for not posting for a couple of days, my mother-in-law passed away this weekend. She has been living with us as she went through her final stage of life and my wife took care of her. So we are now in Florida for the funeral.

This is great stuff! Thanks for the advice on the book, I will try and find that one soon and go through it. I like the idea of moving the doors a little to make storage feasable on the side. I'm still torn about the bathroom (especially the shower). It sounds good on paper, but many of you have said it might be a waste. Will have to ponder that some more.

Someone visiting me this week suggested building a wall around the car area (at least one bay) to keep the moisture and such seperate. My thought originally was that we would probably only use the "garage" feature in the winter when it snows and the rest of the time I would have that space for projects. A couple of you have also said that undisturbed project space is a must, which was my plan for the space left of the cars, but that might not be sufficient.

I currently don't have a bandsaw, so everyone suggesting that it either be moved out or on castors (I like that idea for all the tools actually) is well-recieved.

I used a program called Visio from Microsoft to do the drawing (someone had asked). It's not a great CAD program, but enough to get a sence of space and scope.

Thanks guys. If you think of anything else, please keep them coming. This is a great learning experience for me.

-Frank

 

[bczoom]

Frank

OK, you OK'd us to post if there are more thoughts.
Let me throw in my 2 cents.

I'll skip or not re-iterate what most have already said but concur with most.

Why 35' wide? Lumber, trusses... all come in 4' increments so why not go 36'?

Don't forget floor drains. Put under the cars where they get parked. That way runoff will go under the car instead of between them where you have to walk.

Electrically:
Don't forget receptacles in the ceiling for the garage door openers and maybe some spool type lights or extension cords.

Maybe a couple outdoor receptacles as well.

This may apply more to your building where you store your tractor but you may consider a motion detector inside. Makes it easy to maneuver when you drive in at night and the lights are all off.

For the plumbing:
Where will the waste go? Might be a bigger issue if you actually put an apartment above for your daughter. Once it's a living area, I believe there's a whole new set of plumbing code.

An outside water connection for pressure washer?

If you do go 2 stories, check the code in your area if the upstairs is to be used as an apartment. They might change some things to put an apartment upstairs. Plumbing, heating, electric and what is allowed downstairs may change everything.

For the vacuum system, I would "think" it would be better to have along the wall instead of in the floor. Less moisture possibilities to start a clogging process. Also easier to disassemble should you get a clog.

Many have already said the biggest factor is to go as big as you can. I definitely agree. You didn't mention (other than being detached from the house) where this garage will go. Do you have open area around it? Will it be a driveway pulling up to it and grass surrounding the rest? Where I'm going with this is wondering if a car-port (heck, a roof on 4x4's for the perimeter) can be added to a discreet side so you can put a car or 2 under the port when the shop is in use.

 

[CajunRider]

Others have mentioned a lot of good things. I only took a quick glance so I am not very sure, but have you also laid out how you want your dust collection system? Wood dust can be very toxic and having a good dust collection is crucial to your health. I recommend you look into this area. Post your question at woodnet, I am sure you'll get plenty of good advice there as well. In some cases the dust collection system lay out will make the choice of equipment layout much more apparent.

My $.002 (Yea, that's right, you get a big discount! Either that or my idea aint worth much at all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

 

[Av8r3400]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm still torn about the bathroom (especially the shower). It sounds good on paper, but many of you have said it might be a waste. )</font>

First: I am sorry for your loss. My sincere condolences to you and your family.

Bathroom: What's to ponder? It's a great idea!! I wish I had one in my garage. Plumbing the toilet, sink and shower make possible real floor drains and a hot water heater. Both are on my need to have list on the next garage. I would suggest a "tub sink" rather than a regular vanity in the bath, though. That type of sink allows "bulky" items to fit and will take the abuse better. Also the faucet on those allows the hook up of a garden hose for floor cleaning with HOT water and whatever else you can think of.

 

[dummy]

<font color="blue">If you do go 2 stories, check the code in your area if the upstairs is to be used as an apartment. They might change some things to put an apartment upstairs. Plumbing, heating, electric and what is allowed downstairs may change everything.
</font> Biggie that always comes to my mind is fire-proofing. And smoke/fire alarms. Having an apartment upstairs also can/will limit downstairs options. Finishing material fumes / diesel fumes travel great distances.
But, attic style trusses and some dormers now, could make that apartment / office area an easier reality later.

 

[fenneran]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Why 35' wide? Lumber, trusses... all come in 4' increments so why not go 36'?)</font>
Good question. My original plan was 30', then I got the bright idea about the bathroom and added 5' more! 36 makes sense in light of the trusses.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Don't forget floor drains. Put under the cars where they get parked. That way runoff will go under the car instead of between them where you have to walk.)</font>
I will have to look at the code. My Uncle in CT said he was not allowed to put in drains for environmental reasons. (which seems kinda dumb to me. Where's the melt going to go, into thin air?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Electrically:
Don't forget receptacles in the ceiling for the garage door openers and maybe some spool type lights or extension cords.

Maybe a couple outdoor receptacles as well.

This may apply more to your building where you store your tractor but you may consider a motion detector inside. Makes it easy to maneuver when you drive in at night and the lights are all off.)</font>
Good ideas. I thought about a couple of roll-up recepticles near the cars for trouble lights and such.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For the plumbing:
Where will the waste go? Might be a bigger issue if you actually put an apartment above for your daughter. Once it's a living area, I believe there's a whole new set of plumbing code.)</font>
The building will be about 50' from the septic dist box. My thought was a small septic tank tied to the existing box (but will probably have to add a line or two for the leech field. Currently 7, 100' lines)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You didn't mention (other than being detached from the house) where this garage will go. Do you have open area around it? Will it be a driveway pulling up to it and grass surrounding the rest? Where I'm going with this is wondering if a car-port (heck, a roof on 4x4's for the perimeter) can be added to a discreet side so you can put a car or 2 under the port when the shop is in use.)</font>
Our driveway comes in from the road about 1/2 mile, then goes into a teardrop shape. The house is on the far end of the teardrop. The building will be on the lower part of the teardrop, about 50 feet from the house. There is a small barn there now, but the foundation has failed and is undercutting from erosion. The plan is to put the new building about 20 feet farther "in" from where the ground is getting washed away, reinforcing and filling the bad area.

-Frank

 

[fenneran]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bathroom: What's to ponder? It's a great idea!! I wish I had one in my garage. Plumbing the toilet, sink and shower make possible real floor drains and a hot water heater. Both are on my need to have list on the next garage. I would suggest a "tub sink" rather than a regular vanity in the bath, though. That type of sink allows "bulky" items to fit and will take the abuse better. Also the faucet on those allows the hook up of a garden hose for floor cleaning with HOT water and whatever else you can think of. )</font>

I thought a regular vanity in the bathroom itself, then a wash sink right outside for the big stuff. Is that overkill?

-Frank

 

[fishman]

Where's the fridge? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[fractal]

There are several things I do not see in your shop.

1 - air compressor and air lines. You can get away with a consumer grade 120v air compressor but if you get into serious air tools or do a lot of painting you may want to get an 220v industrial model. Planing the air distribution up front can save you a lot of retrofit afterwords.

2 - dust collection. How much woodworking are you going to do? If it is a lot you might want to invest in the infrastructure for a dust collector.

3 - if you do go for air and dust collection, you might want to consider an insulated room. Some folk do a simple lean-to type structure outside the main structure. This lets you put the air compressor and dust extractor far enough away that the noise is not a nuisence.

4 - I don't see a 50 amp 220v outlet conveniently located for a welder, or am I missing something.

5 - the bathroom is a great feature for a shop. I would not eliminate it. Drop the shower and internal basin if you feel you must save space but keep the toilet.

Probably the biggest thing I see you doing wrong is not building it in my back yard <grin>

 

[Av8r3400]

<font color="blueclass=small">( Bathroom: What's to ponder? It's a great idea!! I wish I had one in my garage. Plumbing the toilet, sink and shower make possible real floor drains and a hot water heater. Both are on my need to have list on the next garage. I would suggest a "tub sink" rather than a regular vanity in the bath, though. That type of sink allows "bulky" items to fit and will take the abuse better. Also the faucet on those allows the hook up of a garden hose for floor cleaning with HOT water and whatever else you can think of. )

<font color="blue">I thought a regular vanity in the bathroom itself, then a wash sink right outside for the big stuff. Is that overkill?

-Frank </font></font>

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Better yet!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Phred]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Don't forget floor drains. Put under the cars where they get parked. That way runoff will go under the car instead of between them where you have to walk.

Electrically:
Don't forget receptacles in the ceiling for the garage door openers and maybe some spool type lights or extension cords. )</font>

Good advice. I have one floor drain and if I did it again I would put in about 5.
The extension cord reels are the best. Also an air reel would be a good adition.

I have a frost free hot/cold faucet outside as well as an air line outlet on the outside mounted to the side of the shop. This way I can use the air in the winter time easily out front. The warm water outside can be a real plus in winter time.
Very hand for a quick fix on farm equipment.

Also I have almost every thing on casters. This way you can rearange the shop as needed.

Another key item is storage drawers for small parts. You can make your own very cheaply with
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46037&cat=1,43326

 

[Phred]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
1 - air compressor and air lines. You can get away with a consumer grade 120v air compressor but if you get into serious air tools or do a lot of painting you may want to get an 220v industrial model.
)</font>

I would not bother with the 110 models. Jump right to a 220V if you can and at least 10+ CFM. Otherwsie you may find yourself like me; I have payed for a 110V and then a 220V when it was clear after a year or two that the 110V could not cut it!

If you only want to run a brad nailer the 110V will do fine. But the problem is that air tools tend to mutliply and before you know it you will have a sander or heaven forbid a sand blaster...good by 110V.

 

[fenneran]

Sorry to keep pounding the questions out at you guys, but here's another thought. My thinking all along has been that this would be a stick-built building on a pad. A friend works for a pole-barn building company and asked if I had considered pole construction with a poured pad. I know some of you have that. Are there advantages/disadvantages to either method of contstruction? I want this to be a heated/cooled space, so does that come into the picture for choosing which way to go?

-Frank

 

[Glenn9643]

I'm a little late into this discussion but have a few thoughts anyway.
If you mentioned a ceiling height I missed it, and would recommend at least 10' for handling plywood sheets, etc.
Several have mentioned potential problems with duct clogging if placed within the slab. I used 4" schedule 40 PVC under my slab for the DC, with "wye's" to bring it up the the equipment drops and extended it beyond the slab at the end with a "cleanout" plug so I could remove any plugs. It's been in use for about four years and I've not had any problems with plugging, hooked to a 13" planer, router table, or cabinet saw. My only recommendation would be to use 6" instead of the 4" PVC and place the DC in a separate area filtering the return air with high quality filters available from Lowe's, etc. Even with a good DC you'll have some dust blowby and this will help with that as well as keep the noise down. I have added dropsheds that extend out 24' on three sides of my shop and 18' on the front for additional covered storage, and built a 6x8 room on one end that's outside of my main shop area for my DC and air compressor with two filtered return air openings through the wall into the shop.
When you run the electrical under the slab put each outlet on it's own circuit and use wiring large enough for your greatest anticipated need. That way you can drop down to 120v and 20amp breaker if that's what you need or go up to 220, depending on the tool.
What type of planer are you using? Mine is a Dewalt "portable" and I built a stand for it so that the output is the same height as my cabinet saw. My router table is huge, made from an old double pedestal desk, and I removed the legs and put it on a heavy frame on casters with the top the same height as the cabinet saw, planer, and my miter saw. This allows me to move the router table as needed to use it as an outfeed table or assembly table when not using the router. The paner, cabinet saw, miter saw, and bandsaw are also on casters.
If you're running the electrical from your house to the new building underground you should consider added conduits for telephone lines and perhaps wiring for a networked computer or cable TV. It won't cost much and now's the time to do it.
You can never get too many electrical outlets in the shop, and I have at least one outlet on each exterior wall outside the shop.
Good luck with your project. You'll enjoy it.

Glenn