Gas for chainsaw...

[5030]

Don't matter to me one way or another, all I know is corn alcohol in gasoline can do 'phase separation if it sits for a period of time and that depends on the amount of corn alcohol added to the gasoline (which, btw is added at the filling rack at the refinery as you cannot transmit e-gas via pipeline.

In as much as my 2 stroke engines don't get used everyday, I prefer using synthetic gasoline with the 2 stroke oil already mixed in, in my case. either Red Armor (Echo) or Tru-Fuel 50-1. The shelf life on syn fuel is at least 5 years and it does cost a bit but still cheaper than a non running 2 stroke engine or carb rebuild or replacing fuel lines because E-gas eats them up.

Phase separation is caused by the corn alcohol attracting moisture in the air. Alcohol is naturally hydroscopic. Once the corn alcohol in the gasoline attracts ambient moisture in the air, phase separation occurs and that is what destroys fuel lines and gums up carbs.

I don't need that or want that so I just use synthetic fuel and my 2 stroke engines run better on it anyway.

 

[ponytug]

I always thought ethanol was added to gas to help with pricing/shortages of oil and our (at one time?) immense ability to produce corn. Or perhaps to help subsidize the corn farmers?

I didn't know it was used or able to raise any octane levels??

Probably showing my ignorance in all of the above.

While Henry Ford demonstrated that a Model T could run on ethanol, the politics behind blending ethanol into gasoline has been a mixture; farmers who wanted a bigger market for their corn, environmentalists who wanted a fuel that had lower emissions with less fossil carbon, and others, including some oil companies, and many counties and states who saw an increased tax base. Against that were other farmers who worried about getting enough grain for their animals, environmentalists who were against 'agribusiness', oil companies, car companies, other states who weren't getting a slice of the pie, and the list goes on.

• Yes oil has been added to dilute crude oil to extend gasoline supplies,
• Yes, ethanol is about 109 octane by itself, though lower in energy/gal,
• Yes, the US does produce an immense amount of corn, (#1 globally) and
• Yes, having another large consumer of corn increased the market size for farmers, though most corn goes into animal feed, and high fructose corn syrup production.

As with many things in life, I think it is complicated. In the US, you can think of ethanol as liquified natural gas, as the energy inputs to corn and ethanol production account for about 75% of the energy in the final fuel. Sugar cane produced ethanol has nearly 100% of the energy in the ethanol from plant sources, i.e. nearly fossil free. I personally think of it as a set of training wheels to go from fossil fuels to renewable electricity. Changing energy sources is a big deal, and requires lots of investment across both production and use. "Rome wasn't built in a day."

US corn use by sector, and over time;

Global corn production, lead by the US, China, Brazil, Argentina, and Ukraine.

Unfortunately, I believe that the current Wikipedia entry on ethanol has a number of misstatements of fact.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Dftodd]

I’m lucky there is a gas station about 15 to 20 minutes away that sells 91 octane ethanol free, a single hose. Someone posted a video a few weeks ago about the single hose thing and actually tested the fuel. Yes if you only do a gallon or two there is going the ethanol in it. I’m just to cheap to buy the premix.

That's why I always look for non ethanol with a dedicated hose.

I quit purchasing non ethanol at one station. They went from a dedicated nozzle to only being able to purchase it at a couple of pumps with the option of either or from the same nozzle. I purchased once from them after the switch and started having trouble with my small engines. Come to find out, what was advertised at the pump wasn't what people were being sold.

Their non ethanol sales dried up after that move. I wasn't the only one locally that had issues with them.

There are two truck stops within a couple miles of my property that have non ethanol on a dedicated pump. I purchase from either of them. I haven't purchased gas or diesel from that third place in years. The only thing that I will get from them is my propane tanks filled.

 

[ericm979]

Ethanol is also an oxygenate- there's oxygen in it, and since the stoichiometric ratio with air is lower than gas's 14.7 (more ethanol is needed per unit of air). So it make carbureted and old school FI systems run leaner than with E0 gas. Which for many '70s and '80s vehicles, makes them pollute less.

One of the reasons ethanol was put into gas was to replace MTBE. MTBE was also an oxygentate but it was harder on fuel systems than ethanol, and it tended to leak from leaky underground storage tanks and pollute ground water much worse than either gasoline or ethanol does.

These days there's not a lot of '70s and '80s cars on the roads. Anything with an O2 sensor will compensate for the oxygenate in the fuel so it does not help non CO2 pollution in those vehicles.

Keeping carbon safely buried in the ground will help reduce climate change. For climate change it's better to recycle carbon from the air (via plants) and turn that into fuel than to pull carbon from underground and add it into the atmosphere.

 

[MossRoad]

....

Anyway, they have a bag over the handle. They are either out of higher octane or maybe an issue with their pump, tank, paying the bills....something.
....

Next time you see that bag over the handle, take a look up at where the hose connects to the pump...

I frequent a local gas station where there are often bagged pump handles. On day there were three bagged pumps. What the heck. Then I looked up. The quick disconnect safety coupling was pulled apart on all three of them. Since then, every one that I've looked at has that coupling disconnected.

Now, I don't know if someone somehow goes up there and disconnects it for some reason, but I'm guessing that people drive off with the nozzle still in their filler neck and it disconnects the hose, so they bag it and take it out of service until it can be reconnected and tested for damage.

I've seen it about a dozen times now. So, I'd appreciate it if anyone else notices that, or it's just a local thing.

 

[MossRoad]

Actually E15 will be the norm and it's death on a 2 stroke engine. Read your owners manual.

This has been discussed on TBN several times. It's not an accurate statement as it makes it sound like E10 is going away.

E15 will be allowed, but E10 will still be available.

 

[John_Mc]

Not sure what the big deal is needing a dedicated hose for non-ethanol fuel. I drive a vehicle to the gas statin when I fill up my fuel cans. So when buying non-ethanol gas for my chainsaws, I just pump a couple gallons into the vehicle first, then start filling my fuel cans.

 

[ruffdog]

Ethanol is also an oxygenate- there's oxygen in it, and since the stoichiometric ratio with air is lower than gas's 14.7 (more ethanol is needed per unit of air). So it make carbureted and old school FI systems run leaner than with E0 gas. Which for many '70s and '80s vehicles, makes them pollute less.

One of the reasons ethanol was put into gas was to replace MTBE. MTBE was also an oxygentate but it was harder on fuel systems than ethanol, and it tended to leak from leaky underground storage tanks and pollute ground water much worse than either gasoline or ethanol does.

These days there's not a lot of '70s and '80s cars on the roads. Anything with an O2 sensor will compensate for the oxygenate in the fuel so it does not help non CO2 pollution in those vehicles.

Keeping carbon safely buried in the ground will help reduce climate change. For climate change it's better to recycle carbon from the air (via plants) and turn that into fuel than to pull carbon from underground and add it into the atmosphere.

Good post. Ethanol is a way better option and safer than the MTBE was.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We just buy two cycle mix at WM or Harbor Freight since the HF posthole is the only gas power tool we use. We have several gas saws including a large and medium Stil saws that have not been started in 10 years. The Kobalt 80 volt electric start power tools and my arthritis get along just fine. I don't touch the posthole auger. The gas Leaf blowers were lasting 2-3 years but we were mixing our own fuel back then.

 

[CalG]

I've been cutting fuel wood off the pile for two weeks. Burned thru 4 gal of pump regular (E10) and hardware store two stroke oil. Everything is fine .
I even pulled out the Pro Mac 10-10.
That saw hadn't been run in a few years. It's got low compression by feel, (need to re-ring it) but it started right up and runs just fine. The added weight of that old saw over the newer husky is a bonus when cutting on skids at waist level.

Any way, I don't worry about gas, run every two stroke at 40:1 out of the same cans. I'm not fussy about oil brand either so long as it's engineered to run 40:1. I've had next to no issues with carbs or fuel lines. and there are 6 two strokes kicking about in the shop. Heck, I ran up the back pack blower this afternoon. That has been sitting in the same spot since I set it there last fall. Started right up and runs just like new.

I don't look for two stroke troubles, and don't seem to have any. Maybe it's 'cause I like them ;-)

 

[5030]

Maybe it's because you use them regularly. Try letting the corn gas sit in your saw for a few months unused and report back.

 

[CalG]

Maybe it's because you use them regularly. Try letting the corn gas sit in your saw for a few months unused and report back.

Are the examples of the Mac 10-10 not run for several YEARS, and the back-pack blower not run since October reports enough?

Jeesh///

 

[Oaktree]

Maybe it's because you use them regularly. Try letting the corn gas sit in your saw for a few months unused and report back.

It depends on the engine. My saw can sit for 6+ months at a time with fuel in the tank and it always starts right up. Got a couple weed wackers/string trimmers that are a bit fussier about fuel, so I run them dry if they're not going to be used for a while. I only use E10.

 

[MossRoad]

Are the examples of the Mac 10-10 not run for several YEARS, and the back-pack blower not run since October reports enough?

Jeesh///

No.

 

[Blue Mule]

My 24-volt Kobalt chainsaw starts up every time, regardless of weather. Zero trips to the gas station. Only oil it needs is for the bar. Tool-less chain adjustment. Doesn't wake up the neighbors when I use it. I think I'm hooked. The Stihl Farm Boss just sits on the shelf now.

 

[two_bit_score]

For a few years I couldn't find any station convenient to get non-ethanol fuel. Now almost every Buccee's has dedicated non-ethanol fuel pumps. Really handy but also QT near me has non-ethanol and several stations in East Texas are now carrying it.

I still use TruFuel or MotoMix in my stihl equipment. Everything just starts and runs better.

Non-Ethanol for all the mowers.

 

[ponytug]

Just for reference, in the FWIW category, both of my Stihls specify 89 Octane minimum. I would definitely go by what is in your manual.

Higher octane will reduce knock, but it puts more heat into exhaust manifolds and mufflers due to the combustion delay.

I have thought it would be fun to try one of these tuned up, nikasil cylindered, high HP, nitromethane breathing chainsaws. Not enough to build one though...

All the best,

Peter

 

[stumblinhorse]

Chainsaw gas, all 2 stroke gas really, falls into the “I use what works for me”. I run enough of it to have tried all things. And for my Stihl chainsaws the only thing that doesn’t give me trouble is pre-mix. For my weed/brush cutters I use whatever, it doesn’t seem to care. But the chainsaws definitely did. My weed eaters don’t run all that great, but I can get stuff done. I need my chainsaws to run well and the only things that did was premix, I run Motomix. I hate the price but I hate vapor lock worse and no matter what I used only Motomix didn’t vapor lock.

 

[copytmpmzl]

Just for reference, in the FWIW category, both of my Stihls specify 89 Octane minimum. I would definitely go by what is in your manual.

Higher octane will reduce knock, but it puts more heat into exhaust manifolds and mufflers due to the combustion delay.

I have thought it would be fun to try one of these tuned up, nikasil cylindered, high HP, nitromethane breathing chainsaws. Not enough to build one though...

All the best,
fitness calcualtor
Peter

thank you so much for your suggestion

 

[Larry Caldwell]

While Henry Ford demonstrated that a Model T could run on ethanol, the politics behind blending ethanol into gasoline has been a mixture; farmers who wanted a bigger market for their corn, environmentalists who wanted a fuel that had lower emissions with less fossil carbon, and others, including some oil companies, and many counties and states who saw an increased tax base. Against that were other farmers who worried about getting enough grain for their animals, environmentalists who were against 'agribusiness', oil companies, car companies, other states who weren't getting a slice of the pie, and the list goes on.

The reason for ethanol in gasoline is that it is oxygenated fuel reduces tailpipe emissions nitrous oxide (N2O) which is one of the primary ingredients of photochemical smog. They tried MTBE, which turned out to be both persistent and water soluble. They switched to ethanol, which is also water soluble, but almost everything can metabolize it. Other alcohols will work, but they are more expensive to produce.

The law only requires oxygenated fuel in areas where smog could make breathing hazardous. The oil companies said, "Screw that. We're not going to run separate supply chains for ethanol gas," and just mixed it with everything. In many areas it's legal to pump E0, but it's not available in quantity. In my area, if they don't sell enough chainsaw and lawnmower gas, they can pump it into cars. The result is that E0 regular and premium is available anywhere.

So, does anyone else run Seafoam in their chainsaw, weed eater, leaf blower, and lawnmower engines? Seafoam is not the only one I use; any fuel system cleaner gets mixed into the 5 gallon tank, a quarter of a can at a time, along with StaBil. I also use Red Line, a 2-cycle synthetic racing oil that is better suited to air cooled engines than TCW-3. NAPA carries it.