GC2310 Wrong Pump installed

[hknapp]

I have had my Massey GC2310 for three years and have 788 hours on the tractor. It was three months out of warranty. All services have been completed in a timely manner since it was purchased. The tractor was sitting idling the other day and I went to raise the backhoe. I heard a click and a faint whirr?? and lost all hydraulics. After consulting the dealer I decided to see what was wrong myself. When I pulled the pump out I found that all of the splines were worn off on the first half inch of the shaft. Upon further investigation I found the following problems:
1. The pump shaft only went into the 1 1/2" deep gear 1/2".
2. The front 1/2'" of the gear was worn like the shaft.
3. The raised area on the pump which should have snugly into the machined port on the transmission housing wasundersized by 1/4".
A. These two surfaces are used to correctly align the pump shaft to the gears.
4. The pump was installed with a bunch of liquid gasket material to try to fill the void left by the underszed raise area of the pump.
I took the tractor and pump to the dealer. The factory was notified and so far has offered to replace the arts fo free. Since this is a labor intensive job, that's some help but not alot.
Has anyone else had this failure?
As soon as I get the old pump number I will post it so you can check that this pump is not installed in your tractor.
More when I get more.

 

[ultrarunner]

A product recall might be in order if this is more than an isolated case... especially if this can be considered safety related as in the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

I hear Arbitration Cases and part of each case takes into account the service received. I agree it should not have happened and the offer of new parts, after the warranty, is a plus from the Manufacturer.

Please post future details... I've recommended this model to several.

 

[jaybrad]

Please post future details... I've recommended this model to several.

....and several of us have this popular model, and will be interested in knowing more about this (hopefully very isolated) situation.

Jay

 

[JerryG]

Was the tractor brand new when you bought it?

 

[hknapp]

I purchased the tractor new in March of 2005. I was told by the dealer today that the pump was changed in the 2006 models. The pump installed on my tractor is a Shimadzu GPY-10R708 470. This number is located on the face of the pump. You will either have to use an inspection mirror or remove the floor board in order to see it. Still have not heard more from the dealer or the manufacturer.
More when I get more.

 

[ray66v]

Hknapp: Could you post your serial number, or send it to me in a pm? I want to compare it to mine.

 

[JerryG]

I can't see it coming from the factory like that. I just wonder if the dealer swiped the pump off of it for another customer and then didn't get the right pump back in to replace it.

 

[hknapp]

I am pleased to announced the Dealer called yesterday and said they would replace the pump including all parts and labor. I would have to purchase the hydraulic oil and filter. I am satisfied. I have loved my tractor and was heart sick when it died. I'll post when I get it back.
Thanks for your input and support. The latent defect idea was killer.
If anyone is curious my Tractor Serial Number is NT3548. Hope it helps anyone in this situation.
Thanks,
hknapp

 

[hknapp]

You're talkin' about a major teardown to get that pump out. The only thing left after the dash is the HST and transmission. If that happened I would be surprised. There would be massive labor costs.

 

[buckwheat]

I've got S/N NT0654

Pump number is GPY 10R708 370

Not sure how it differs from the 470 you have.

If the dealer is willing to disclose how much this would cost without assistance from M-F, I would be interested in hearing. By the time I get the hours you have, I'm guessing they will be a lot less willing to perform goodwill repairs.

 

[Willl]

they would replace the pump

The gear too ?

 

[hknapp]

They're replacing the pump AND the gear. It was as tore up as the pump shaft was. Yup, that's a job. HST off, Transmission Cover off, messy!!
I don't know the difference between 370 and 470 on the pump number. I haven't googled shimadzu to see if there are any particulars on the pump. I know there isn't anything in the Tractor Service or Parts Manual.

 

[Aaron hoedown]

They're replacing the pump AND the gear. It was as tore up as the pump shaft was. Yup, that's a job. HST off, Transmission Cover off, messy!!
I don't know the difference between 370 and 470 on the pump number. I haven't googled shimadzu to see if there are any particulars on the pump. I know there isn't anything in the Tractor Service or Parts Manual.

I've got a 2310 that I bought brand new. It's over the warranty time wise (04?), but it's ONLY had 455 hours on it when my pump tanked. I payed to have it fixed (2000$). Asked for a goodwill warranty? Massy offered to pay HALF OF THEIR COST ON THE PUMP(180$)!!!! I'm pissed!!! Can anybody help me out? Any ideas, or hints?

 

[wallace]

You have a 7 year old tractor....You got Massey to pay half the cost on the pump....
You are upset?
I say you should be very thankful they did that.
7 years old!

I can't even imagine any manufacture car,truck,tractor, etc doing anything like that.

 

[ray66v]

You have a 7 year old tractor....You got Massey to pay half the cost on the pump....
You are upset?
I say you should be very thankful they did that.
7 years old!

I can't even imagine any manufacture car,truck,tractor, etc doing anything like that.

They manufactured some of the early tractors with a pump that had a shaft which was too short. After they started to have problems, they changed the design to a pump with a longer shaft. They know the rest of the ones they made with the short shaft are very likely to fail, and they did nothing about it, except quietly wait for them to go out of warranty.

Now they offer to pay $180 toward a $2000 repair which resulted not only from their defect, but their further negligence to make any effort to correct their known defect.

By any reasonable standard, a recall years ago while these machines were still under warranty, would have been the right thing to do.

Add to that, they also have an admitted known defect in the front pinion gear that they have basically handled the same way. They fixed the ones that failed early, and waited for the rest of them to go out of warranty, rather than accept the responsibility for their mistake.

Then, to add insult to injury, you think he should be grateful for their generosity?

Years ago, when everyone was all giddy about the "free" hat AGCO sent them, I said, they can keep the hat, I just hope they to stand behind what they built. Looks like my skepticism was well deserved.

I am also not interested in what will come from you next in the form of stories about how "generous" they have been with your customers, that won't do anything to mitigate this situation.

Since the issue with the pump borders on fraud, perhaps enough of these failures will occur to attract a class action lawsuit.

They can't get away with this kind of business practice today, because the internet gives us a chance to find out how they do business. Trust me, each one of these tractors will result in at least one family who will not purchase a MF product again.

 

[ray66v]

I would really like to know if the rest of us can head this off with a preemptive strike?

Since the gear has been quietly modified to correct their mistake, would just replacing that, keep the rest from failing? Does the pump have to go too? Or, should I just wait for it to blow, and become a lawn ornament? (In which case it will be parked on a main street, with a big yellow lemon painted on it).

Anyone have part numbers for the gear, and the longer pump?

 

[wallace]

Although I do not agree with the way manufactures handel issues like this, unfortunally it is something that we consumers have to live with.
I have seen this several times in the past ie;
Kioti: injector pumps.
New Holland: cracking bell housing
Kioti: cracking loaders
Montana: craking loader bearing boxes
Meyer: E60 pumps
Ford: 6.0 powerstroke engines
Ford: 6.4 powerstroke engines
Jaguar: S type transmissions.
ETC...
ETC...
I'm sure there is just about a flaw or mistake in just about everything that is being made. It just a matter of time if it will fail, quit, break, or just stop!
Again I dont agree with "known issues" Seems like the only way something get attention and fixed is if it is deemed unsafe.

 

[MFRED]

Don't forget about the Cummins "53" blocks & the KDP in the early 12 valves.

Not every pump will fail. Just had an early 2300 through with 1600 hours on it, original pump. But, have also replaced the "updated pump" on tractors with 200 hours. I think we've seen more with contaminated oil fail the pump splines than anything.

 

[cdaigle430]

Even when a manufacturer knows of a known defect like this, all they do us close their eyes and cross their fingers. When a failure occurs, the weed out some buy denying a defect. If they cannot deny a defect, then they offer to just pay part of the costs. If it's no longer under warranty-well-if it's not a safety issue your at their mercy. If a lawyer is needed then they win or lose on a case by case basis.

This is how they all weed out the majority of manufacturer costs hoping that we will either pay for it ourselves, fix it ourselves, or manufacturer has to pay a fraction of the costs.

The only time a manufacturer does a recall is if it's a safety issue due to the know defect even if it's no longer under warranty.

 

[ray66v]

The only time a manufacturer does a recall is if it's a safety issue due to the know defect even if it's no longer under warranty.

If you meant to say, the only time a manufacturer does a recall after a unit is out of warranty, is if it is a safety issue, that is generally true.

If you meant to say, manufacturers only do recalls when it's a safety issue. That is incorrect. While injury claims are a strong motivator, manufacturers do recall products to repair flaws in designs, and manufacturing. Particularly, when they care about their reputation.

This defect was know when these units were still under warranty, and it is a serious enough defect that it required them to not only change the pump to one with a longer shaft, but apparently those who have gone through this have said they also modified the gear it drives.

There is an implied warranty of fitness when you buy a product. This means the item is fit for the use that it was intended for. A case can be made these units were not fit for such use. Time will tell, but it's starting to look like the fact that the remaining units are getting used infrequently is the main reason they have not yet failed. If the company knew these units had this fatal defect, kept selling them, and did nothing to correct them, a case could be made for fraud.