Generators, sizes and fuel options?

[coldsteelva]

A true standby generator needs a minimum 250 gal propane tank. I have customers using 100 gal tanks, and they have nothing but trouble keeping them running.

The trick here that I don't think people think of is to use the generator as an electric source for a propane tank heater. Need initial pressure to fire the generator, generator powers the heat wrap, heat wrap boosts the vapor pressure, you can maintain pressure and use of the generator until most of the propane is expended. When deep cold is expected, power the blanket from house power so the tank heat is maintained and then if power goes out, you're already good to go. Blankets are available for 500 gal tanks down to 20lb bottles.

 

[check]

I see that no one has mentioned an automatic transfer switch. It is a big deal for us. Only cost $800, and our 17 kW Kohler propane powered generator comes on immediately when the power goes out. Very convenient, since it’s usually miserable outside when the power goes down (which seems to happen more and more these days).

Last power outage was over Christmas. We have a propane powered forced air furnace, and that’s it for propane. Meanwhile, we use the stove normally and cooked the turkey and everything. Also, the Kohler generators are very quiet, and we could hardly hear it even outside.

 

[CobyRupert]

The regulators will freeze up. You likely need a heated regulator to cure that regardless of tank size. What he’s taking about is the propane can’t transform from its liquid state to a gas fast enough to keep the generator supplied. The propane is essentially evaporating inside the tank. Cold slows the process. The bigger tank gives the liquid a larger surface area to evaporate.

Yes, but…
that depends on the shape of the tank, how the tank is oriented (standing up or laying on its side) and where the gas line is attached.
That is, a cylinder standing up vertically has very little surface area above the liquid compared to if the cylinder is laying horizontal.

 

[HAR]

Good thread.
Much has already been discussed and thought out.
Where you live and your power consumption will probably determine both the size and fuel that you choose.
Living in rural Vermont, natural gas is not an option, and propane, while available, is not something that I could bury at my location to prevent cold Vermont winter issues.
In the past week or so, we have had two power issues. The first was the result of a very heavy, wet snow storm, which caused outages due to branches/limbs/trees succumbing to the heavy weight. Our outage was very small and short lived, and I used my 2KW inverter generator to provide some lights for just over 4 hours in the evening. However, 3 days later, we went from 42F down to 8F in just over 12 hours, creating strong, gale force winds, 50-60MPH locally, which pummeled the area, again taking branches/limbs/trees down. My power went out at 3:42AM and I reported the outage. Luckily for the power company, there were already out of state crews here from the previous storm. It was nearly 2 hours later before the power company reported that it would be 12-24 hours before power might be restored. Due to the continued high winds and low temperatures, I elected to hook up my PTO generator, via double throw switch, to my home. That way I would have power for the furnace and fridge, and whatever lights that I chose. During outages, I elect not to use high draw appliances like dryer or electric range. I have a removeable portable 2 burner stove from my camper that I can run off propane for stove top cooking. As the day wore on, the power company reported over 58,000 homes without power. Huge trees all over the county were either snapped or uprooted. Radio and TV tried to keep everyone informed. We were constantly calling and checking on neighbors and the elderly in our area, giving them the option of using our house as refuge. Originally we were finally given an estimate of 6:45PM for power restoration to our area, but due to continued high winds and temps dropping below 0F, the power company sent most crews home and extended our restore time to 6:30PM the following day. Needless to say, I continued to run the generator. I keep my home thermostat at 68F, which normally is comfortable, but with the winds howling, the furnace was cycling on and off. Running the generator on an 'as needed' basis would have been insane. Each and every winter, in the event of a power outage, I fill all my available 'diesel' cans with winter grade fuel. I have about 35 gallons of storage. My power was restored at 5:45PM Christmas Eve. I burned approximately 15 gallons of off road diesel over the course of 38 hours. I was much more lucky than many. There were still over 1200 homes without power on Monday morning. I had even loaned out my 2KW inverter generator and two extension cords to an elderly neighbor who had no power, but luckily had a wood stove. During this outage, my tractor finally broke the 1000 hour mark. While some on this forum might question the sanity of running a generator 24/7, living through a storm like this one might convince you.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

4 hour power outage last night. Slept through it. The wood stove was stoked at bedtime, so the house didn't even get cold.

I'm an eccentric old codger who doesn't like noisy generators, so of course I have several.

One of my favorites is a 1957 4kw that lives in the pump house. Electric start, 10 hp. old Briggs and Stratton flat head that hadn't had enough hours on it to burn all the paint off the muffler. Paid $50 for it. It's far enough from the house that you can't hear it run.

There's the 5000/4400 rated Harbor Freight closeout that I bought in 1997 for $275. It didn't even ship with a muffler, just a spark arrestor on the 8 hp. pull start B&S I/C. It was so loud it would give you a headache at 100', so I replaced the spark arrestor with a muffler. Everything about it screams cheap, but it ran through a 5 day outage and also supplied power to build a shed off one side of my barn. Stored dry with bagged exhaust to keep the bugs out. I haven't started it in years.

The main house genset is a 10,000/7500 electric start propane Home Depot special. If you believe those numbers I have a bridge to sell you, but all I have to do is blow the cobwebs out every fall and hit start. It feeds a transfer switch.

Then there's my favorite. It's a 1200/1000 2-cycle camp generator that is ultra muffled and runs 4.5 hours on a gallon of gas. I run it through a 1950s darkroom line stabilizer to choke the harmonic distortion, and it runs the entertainment system, computer, router, and refrigerator. I bought it from Coastal Farm for $149 years ago. It has served through numerous off-road hunting camps, every power outage in 15 years, and occasionally runs small power tools for tree pruning, stump drilling, etc. You can pick it up with one hand and it even has a handle. Ultra muffled, you can have a normal conversation standing right next to it.

The real backup is the wood stove, which provides both heat and a cooking surface. Low head gravity water for cooking and toilet. Oil lamps, including two Aladdins and six wall hung lamps where they won't get knocked over. Antique reflector barber shop oil lamp that makes a good reading light. A guitar for entertainment. 19th century tech that works fine with no external inputs. Civilization did not begin with Edison and Tesla.

We've been here 28 years, and our longest outage was 5 days. My wife encourages my eccentricities. The comfort level of our house doesn't change when the power goes out. We fire up a generator for hot water and showers, but in extremity could boil a laundry tub of water on the wood stove and temper it with cold water for a bath. Oh, and a collection of board games. A deck of cards and a Scrabble board will fill a lot of silent hours.

 

[check]

Had a 2-day power outage over Christmas. Propane 17 kw Kohler genny with auto transfer switch kept the whole house powered. No problem cooking the turkey in the oven, plus using the burners to boil the spuds and the like.
Very quiet generator, and starts up instantly when the power goes out.

Wouldn’t be without an automatic transfer switch. Don’t have to lift a finger, and it goes on automatically as soon as the power goes out, and then of course switches back and shuts off the generator when the power comes on again.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Had a 2-day power outage over Christmas. Propane 17 kw Kohler genny with auto transfer switch kept the whole house powered. No problem cooking the turkey in the oven, plus using the burners to boil the spuds and the like.
Very quiet generator, and starts up instantly when the power goes out.

Wouldn’t be without an automatic transfer switch. Don’t have to lift a finger, and it goes on automatically as soon as the power goes out, and then of course switches back and shuts off the generator when the power comes on again.

Automatic transfer switches are indeed handy but, depending on your house wiring, can be expensive to install correctly by a licensed electrician.

When I first priced whole house generator systems, the transfer switch installation would have cost more than the generator. Our outages are less frequent now so I don't mind throwing the switch myself.

 

[shooterdon]

The reliability of power will only get worse. Plan accordingly.

I used to run my place with a 5000 W unit, and I have a well pump. You must load manage to use that small a unit, but you will survive comfortably unless you have electric heat.

Health issues and age prompted us to invest in a 13kW whole house unit powered with propane. IIRC it cost $6500 three years ago. It was installed professionally.

My propane supplier charges $54/yr to rent a 500 gal tank and I opted for that instead of buying another tank. But I have both tanks tied together so we can go a long time if need be. He gives me a blended price for owner owned and rented propane.

How "comfortable" you wish to live, how much effort you want to put into hooking stuff up, how good you will be at managing load, and how prepared you are to manage fuel all factor into how much you are willing to invest. No "perfect" answer or the same answer for everyone.

One last thing. Will your wife or SO be able to deal with the system you decide on? What if you are injured or not home?

 

[newbury]

Lot's of timely info here. Few questions though.
I'm needing a generator or two also. Based on online calculators I figure 10KW would be the max I need, but often (for months) less than half that.
We run a lot of computer equipment and I've a whole house surge protector. I've fried an expensive dishwasher circuit board before I got the wh surge protector.

so Q1 - Would the surge protector work with a generator?
I was actually thinking of buying EVENTUALLY two ~7KW inverter generators. These would be more movable and several times my power has been on but my MIL's was out, thus I could loan a generator easily.

Q2 - Does anyone here run generators with a tri-fuel kit?
My generator of choice (Honda) only offers gasoline, but I've got LPG and natural gas is coming to my road.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I think I am going to try to do propane. I am hoping that a 10k starting generator wouldn’t freeze up a smaller tank. I am thinking of trying to have the tank in the garage with the hose out a window to the generator. My plug to the house is inside the garage also, so I have to have a window cracked open with a piece of insulation blocking weather anyway. My garage is heated to about 45*f so that will help since it is much colder outside. If that doesn’t work I will get a blanket for the tank. And worse case I will syphon gas out of my only gas vehicle as a last resort.