Global Warming?

[Rob-D]

Rob:
"Once again, a mechanical device will [bold]never out do[/bold] and electronic one for simplicity and low maintenance."

See any qualifiers?

Yes, I do.

"Once again, a mechanical device will never out do and electronic one for simplicity and low maintenance."

What would you rather change, a spindle on a lathe or a circuit board? How about the oil in a gear box? Electronics doesn't require oil, filters or mechanical adjustments.

It still comes down to moving parts and electronics without moving parts, back to the piston going up and down or the transistor amplifying.

You think the piston requires less maintenance and is simpler?

You're wrong.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Forty million Japanese in 'extreme danger' of life-threatening radiation poisoning, mass evacuations likely.

This is a hoax.

Japan just shut down its last reactor, that's 54 reactors down. Think they are scared? I do.

They're seeing things on those reactors they never have seen before. The robotics won't work because of the heat and radiation. They have to come up with a completely new technology to address the problems and that takes years.
They thought reactor 3 had ~33 feet of water above the rods, it has 2 feet. Think they are worried, think they want to do everything and say anything they can to stop a mass panic? I do.

Radiation in Seattle for Dai-ichi, what do you think the radiation in Japan is?

You want to move your family to Tokyo? Me, I want to move everyone I love to the opposite side of the planet!

 

[Rob-D]

I work for a company that manufactures control systems for compressors and turbines. Since we keep track about repairs there is pretty good statistic about reliability of our devices. We see that about first 12 years there were very few failures, many of them due to environmental issues such as aggressive gasses, salt, conductive dust etc.
Our devices are made only from components with extended temperature range (mil specs) nevertheless we see increased occurrence of failures after about 12-15 years of constant power on. Usually electrolytic capacitors are the culprit. Needless to say that the percentage of failed devices is still in fraction percent range even after 15 years of power on.
The compressor, steam or gas turbine will be overhauled about three or four times times during the life of the control system. The control system doesn't require much, if any, maintenance during this time.
The control systems I am talking about were made from components (15 years ago) that were not even close to the components we make our systems from today. New components are way more stable. In example new control systems are calibrated in the factory for life of the device.
So I agree with Rob that electronics, if designed right, can outlast mechanical devices several times over. There might be exceptions like in everything in life.

In the past capacitors were always the weak link. With the advent of switching power supplies in the 90's manufacturers had to address high frequency power electronics and they knew that meant different electrolytic solutions. In the last 4 or 5 years caps have really taken a big stride forward.

Enphase microinverters says their electronics have an MTBF of over 100 years. The new ceramic caps in electronics have changed the premature failure problems.

Maxwell Super Caps can now supply 50F caps smaller than a 'C' size battery. That's only possible because of electrolytics. When I went to school I remember being told that a 1 farad cap would be the size of a freight car, now we have 1 F caps smaller than the human pinkie.

Rob

 

[EE_Bota]

Comparing things that move to things that do not is not that handy in my view. We know when we want things to move, and when that is required, movement must happen. I mostly prefer not to use motors as transistors and transistors as motors, as I tend to get home to supper sooner when I don't swim upstream in rivers of gravel.

 

[Rob-D]

Comparing things that move to things that do not is not that handy in my view. We know when we want things to move, and when that is required, movement must happen. I mostly prefer not to use motors as transistors and transistors as motors, as I tend to get home to supper sooner when I don't swim upstream in rivers of gravel.

Depends.

When we're producing energy a windmill with moving parts will have a lot more maintenance than a PV system.

Washing machines are another example. A brushless DC system means no gear box no mechanical reversing systems, etc.

A reel to reel tape deck and an MP3 player, electric house heating and oil heating with a fired boiler.

What I'm doing here is comparing different technologies with the same end result.

I'm not debating that all electronics replace all mechanics, I'm saying when the two can be resolved by either the solid state solution is the simpler, less maintenance involved one.

We can't mow our lawn with a TV and we can't watch movies on a lawn mower. That's a given.

Look at the things in industry where electronics have replaced mechanics, dial telephones, mechanical typewriters, rheostats, etc. Even within electronics, mechanical relays and solid state, the vibrator in a 50's radio and solid state frequency generation.

Rob

 

[Short Game]

For the Japanese people, the Fukushima disaster represents the complete demise of their nation...

I read in a book about Edgar Cayce many years ago that he said in one of his trance readings that in volcanic and seismic events, "Japan would cease to exist as a nation." I never pictured this slow motion, domino toppling, scenario. I thought it would be only natural disasters, not helped along by a technology too cheap to meter.

 

[EE_Bota]

Depends.

When we're producing energy a windmill with moving parts will have a lot more maintenance than a PV system.

Washing machines are another example. A brushless DC system means no gear box no mechanical reversing systems, etc.

A reel to reel tape deck and an MP3 player, electric house heating and oil heating with a fired boiler.

What I'm doing here is comparing different technologies with the same end result.

I'm not debating that all electronics replace all mechanics, I'm saying when the two can be resolved by either the solid state solution is the simpler, less maintenance involved one.

We can't mow our lawn with a TV and we can't watch movies on a lawn mower. That's a given.

Look at the things in industry where electronics have replaced mechanics, dial telephones, mechanical typewriters, rheostats, etc. Even within electronics, mechanical relays and solid state, the vibrator in a 50's radio and solid state frequency generation.

Rob

I am in industry. Do you have a DC powered washing machine?

 

[Short Game]

I read in a book about Edgar Cayce many years ago that he said in one of his trance readings that in volcanic and seismic events, "Japan would cease to exist as a nation." I never pictured this slow motion, domino toppling, scenario. I thought it would be only natural disasters, not helped along by a technology too cheap to meter.

Looks like I dropped the link off that post.

For the Japanese people, the Fukushima disaster represents the complete demise of their nation...

http://www.naturalnews.com/035894_Fu...#ixzz1vAsy6ypS

 

[Rob-D]

I am in industry. Do you have a DC powered washing machine?

Nancy does and I have seen other machines with the technology. Brushless DC motors can turn either direction with variable speed.

Here's the technology:

Consumer Motors Washing Machine Brushless DC Motor | Renesas Electronics

Renesas is a big uC supplier, UC's have changed the way we design circuits. i use uC's (Atmel) in a large percentage of my designs.

Rob

 

[EE_Bota]

Nancy does and I have seen other machines with the technology. Brushless DC motors can turn either direction with variable speed.

Here's the technology:

Consumer Motors Washing Machine Brushless DC Motor | Renesas Electronics

Renesas is a big uC supplier, UC's have changed the way we design circuits. i use uC's (Atmel) in a large percentage of my designs.

Rob

I have brushless DC in the factory. I have seen that site too. I am just attempting to determine if your comments about them being more reliable than conventional have been borne out in reality.

 

[Rob-D]

I have brushless DC in the factory. I have seen that site too. I am just attempting to determine if your comments about them being more reliable than conventional have been borne out in reality.

No gears, belts, reversing mechanisms. Time will tell, but brushless DC is what I'd bet on. They've been big in Europe for awhile I'm told.

Rob

 

[Dustier]

Judging from the content of the posts on the subject of "climate change" there are a lot of people that know and understand more than the people entrusted to manage or fix the problem, but then, it's always that way, anymore. Sort of like arguing whether we're going to sink by the bow or stern while amusing ourselves watching others rearrange deck chairs.

Fatalistic, though it may be, we, as a species, have become the instruments of our planet's demise. It really struck me as ironic to learn that both Mars and Venus used to have atmospheres not all that different than ours. Not that I know that much on the matter, but planet Earth is a living thing and one species is killing it as surely as untreated cancer.

 

[Short Game]

...Earth is a living thing and one species is killing it as surely as untreated cancer.

...and using pretty much the same M.O.

 

[locknut]

Renewables are starting to look pretty good!]

Your optimism is commendable.Have you run the numbers? Are they sustainable?

Yes,I am baiting you

 

[Dustier]

Bait, eh!

BBC News - Arctic melt releasing ancient methane
Scientists have identified thousands of sites in the Arctic where methane that has been stored for many millennia is bubbling into the atmosphere.

The methane has been trapped by ice, but is able to escape as the ice melts.

Writing in the journal Nature Geoscience, the researchers say this ancient gas could have a significant impact on climate change.

Methane is the second most important greenhouse gas after CO2 and levels are rising after a few years of stability.

There are many sources of the gas around the world, some natural and some man-made, such as landfill waste disposal sites and farm animals.

Tracking methane to these various sources is not easy.

But the researchers on the new Arctic project, led by Katey Walter Anthony from the University of Alaska at Fairbanks (UAF), were able to identify long-stored gas by the ratio of different isotopes of carbon in the methane molecules.

Using aerial and ground-based surveys, the team identified about 150,000 methane seeps in Alaska and Greenland in lakes along the margins of ice cover.

Even if one doesn't buy the climate change and global warming science what is there to be lost by restoring cleaning air and water for life?

 

[Redneck in training]

Most of the hydrocarbon on earth is located in gas hydrate. In fact about 55% of all hydrocarbons is gas hydrate. So far there is not technology available to exploit it. Hydrate is ice like substance created when gas is mixed with water and compressed at certain temperature. If the sea warms up lot of hydrate will turn into a gas escape in the atmosphere. Goole "methane hydrate". There is lot of info.

 

[rsewill]

Most of the hydrocarbon on earth is located in gas hydrate. In fact about 55% of all hydrocarbons is gas hydrate. So far there is not technology available to exploit it. Hydrate is ice like substance created when gas is mixed with water and compressed at certain temperature. If the sea warms up lot of hydrate will turn into a gas escape in the atmosphere. Goole "methane hydrate". There is lot of info.

Might make for a good TV movie. All the hydrate is released and ignites in the atmosphere, wiping out everything.

 

[Rob-D]

Your optimism is commendable.Have you run the numbers? Are they sustainable?

Yes,I am baiting you

Today, right now I can buy USA PV modules for $1.20 a watt before gov. pay back. At 30% pay back that = 84 cents a watt.

If I do an intertie I have to add the price of the inverter, or microinverters, wire and incidentals.
If I go with an off grid system ( I have both) I need inverters, batts and incidentals.

What I advise people to do is learn how to put a system in, maybe get a group together and work it out as a unit, this way you save the 4 or 5 bucks a watt an installer will charge you which can easily double or triple your total costs.

The other thing I advise is to start slowly. Lets say year one we buy a few panels and the inverter, wiring, etc. This keeps the initial cost down and we can add to the system as the years go by without the expense of the inverter. That's for off grid.
For intertie I advise using microinverters (Enphase, SolarEdge, etc.) Each panel gets a microinverter, that's it. You tie everything together and run it to a breaker and out to the grid. As you have more money to spend on modules you add them with a microinverter on each one. You can go with as many modules as you want and just keep building.

A good solar dealer can guide you through the install and get you set up with what you need but you have to think, do some reading and learn the basics. Lots of books on the subject and an excellent magazine "Home Power", go buy an issue.

The technology is changing everyday, now you can buy a 4 module complete package from Amazon and plug the output into your 110 outlet reducing your monthly bill. How much? That depends on how smart you are and how well you can conserve. If you want to run incandescents, leave lights on, etc. than don't bother with renewables they won't help you.

People ask me about PV or wind and my first question is how conservative are ? What's your monthly usage, how much power does your freezer use every month?
You have to know those things before you get started, go buy a P3 energy monitor for 25 bucks and find out.

We know who won the ball game who has the most hits, runs, yards, etc. Those things do us no good but the things that do us some good we are totally in the dark about. What's wrong with this picture?

Well I don't know who won the Super Bowl but I'm off the grid selling energy back to the power company, by this time next year I'll be heating my house with renewables and the year after that I'll be charging my electric car with them.

We go out and buy an SUV for 30 or 40 grand that gives us zero return on our money but renewables that can keep our lights on if the grid fails, something that is entirely possible, we want to know the payback on.

Don't want to spend 25 grand on a PV system? Don't. Me I don't want to spend money on fuel oil and electricity. Maybe it costs me more up front but in the end, using some ingenuity, I'm free of the monster that sucks money out of our pockets on a daily basis and in ten or twenty years I'll still be free of that monster.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Bait, eh!



Even if one doesn't buy the climate change and global warming science what is there to be lost by restoring cleaning air and water for life?

Absolutely!

 

[Rob-D]

For those of you who think wind energy doesn't work (I'm sure there are a lot of energy corporations who love that you think that), I disagree:

ERCOT sets new wind record two consecutive days

"Wind output reached 7,599 MW at 8:41 p.m., Wednesday, March 7, exceeding the 7,403 MW record from the previous day, March 6, by 196 MW. Prior to March 6, the record for wind output in ERCOT was 7,400 MW, recorded on Oct. 7, 2011.

At the time of Wednesday's record, wind was supplying 22 percent of the total system load, 34,318 MW."

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Locknut, how's that baiting thing working for you?

Rob