GM forced to close 4 truck plants

[chh]

The main thing being protected by unions now are the jobs of sub standard workers.

And the jobs of union bosses.

 

[tlbuser]

There was a time in our history when unions were needed. That was many decades ago before civil rights laws, OSHA, etc. Many industries benefited from unions such as coal mines. Mines are probably a hundred times safer now than 60 years ago. But, for the most part, the role of unions has passed. There are plenty of existing labor and safety laws to "protect" workers. The main thing being protected by unions now are the jobs of sub standard workers.

I have to agree. Unfortunately, we seem to be breeding a whole new set of substandard employees. I find myself cringing when going anywhere lately. How many weird and absurd things can any one person due to themselves. Tatoos in odd places, multiple/multiple piercings, guaging ears and lips, eyebrow thingys, nose danglers, etc......Yea, yea I'm old fashioned or ancient, whatever, so go ahead sue me.

 

[Builder]

Many of you are old enough to remember Eastern airlines. I believe the union officials name was Charlie Bryan. In my opinion, he was essentially the force that killed the entire airline. His strike backfired and many thousands of families lost their income/cars/homes due to his greed. An entire neighborhood in Miami (Miami Lakes) took the brunt of the strike and demise of Eastern back in the late 80's. Hundreds of Eastern families lived there within a couple miles of the airport. I can sense this same scenario coming around again. If GM has a 5 month supply of completed trucks, then that gives them 5 months to line up a new supplier for axles.

There was a time in our history when unions were needed. That was many decades ago before civil rights laws, OSHA, etc. Many industries benefited from unions such as coal mines. Mines are probably a hundred times safer now than 60 years ago. But, for the most part, the role of unions has passed. There are plenty of existing labor and safety laws to "protect" workers. The main thing being protected by unions now are the jobs of sub standard workers.

Funny thing is, if my memory serves me correctly, AAM is partly made up of GM's old corporate truck axle division.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Just went to AAM's web site. Looks like they will be back in talks with the UAW tomorrow, the 6th. Below is a quote taken right from the site.

"Pursuant to the expired master agreement with the UAW, AAM痴 all-in labor cost is currently $73.48 per hour. This is approximately three times the market rate of AAM痴 peers and competitors in the United States."

Chris

 

[gemini5362]

Many of you are old enough to remember Eastern airlines. I believe the union officials name was Charlie Bryan. In my opinion, he was essentially the force that killed the entire airline. His strike backfired and many thousands of families lost their income/cars/homes due to his greed. An entire neighborhood in Miami (Miami Lakes) took the brunt of the strike and demise of Eastern back in the late 80's. Hundreds of Eastern families lived there within a couple miles of the airport. I can sense this same scenario coming around again. If GM has a 5 month supply of completed trucks, then that gives them 5 months to line up a new supplier for axles.

There was a time in our history when unions were needed. That was many decades ago before civil rights laws, OSHA, etc. Many industries benefited from unions such as coal mines. Mines are probably a hundred times safer now than 60 years ago. But, for the most part, the role of unions has passed. There are plenty of existing labor and safety laws to "protect" workers. The main thing being protected by unions now are the jobs of sub standard workers.

gordon this post would make a good comedy routine

 

[Builder]

I have to agree. Unfortunately, we seem to be breeding a whole new set of substandard employees. I find myself cringing when going anywhere lately. How many weird and absurd things can any one person due to themselves. Tatoos in odd places, multiple/multiple piercings, guaging ears and lips, eyebrow thingys, nose danglers, etc......Yea, yea I'm old fashioned or ancient, whatever, so go ahead sue me.

You and I walk down the same road, my friend. I still have trouble looking at a guy with a ring hangin from his nose.

The old Navy style tattoos don't bother me, though. The best ditch digger & laborer I ever knew was an old tough Irish guy named "Doogan". Man, they don't make them like that anymore. Had a tattoo of a anchor on his forearm and he could bend steel with them forearms, too.

 

[gemini5362]

It is interesting that I did not notice any replies to my post about southwestern airlines.

While we are talking about over all labor costs I am sure some of the high figures being bandied about on here involve health insurance. I dont see any one blaming the doctors and the hospitals for those costs.

I also noticed the people that are doing the most posts about unions have pretty high paying jobs. Or a buisness that does not do to bad.

I am going to be pretty blunt. If you spent 100k plus on education and are making less than a factory worker then there are some things that seem to be relevant. Either you love what you are doing and dont care about the pay. OR you spent the 100k plus on education in the wrong field. Or just because you have an education does not mean you can or will do the job in a factory.


I moved back to Arkansas in 1988 I left a very high paying job in the defense industry. All my friends laughed at me and said I would be back in a year. When I finally found a job here ( every employer said I would go back to my old job because of the salary difference) I was making 5.50 an hour. I never went back to my old job because money was not everything. It still isnt.

My wife told me one night she was thinking about a new job she had been offered. The only problem was that it involved a 50,000 dollar a year pay cut. After I got over the initial shock we talked about it. She did not like what she was doing and the new job was back in a field that she loved. So we bit the bullet and she took the new job.

The point that I am making here is that if you spent a lot of money on education and are not making a lot of money then you either have to not worry about the money and enjoy what you are doing or write all that money you spent on education off and go do something that pays more.



Builder I hate to say this but if it were not for being teachers a lot of teachers with the type of degree and education that they spent big bucks for would be working doing something like teaching kids to say do you want fries with that hamburger. There are just so many jobs (besides teaching) for people with history degrees, english degrees, artists, music degrees , philosophy degrees ( my stepsons major by the way) etc. If you are in some fields no matter how much money you have spent on your education it is a limited employment bracket. I am sure in your buisnes if you have someone come in that is a top of the line framer you are not going to pay him more because he has a masters in history. But if he does not like to teach then he can probably make more money and have more opportunities.



Builder I am not trying to single you out but you have a lot of posts on this subject and most of them are not kind to unions. Do YOU hire undocumented illegal hispanic employees. If you dont does it not make you mad when your competition repeatedly underbids you and gets work you want. That is what the posts on here are suggesting needs to happen to union employees they need to make the same wages as foreign workers who live in china or somewhere make so that we can all have cheap cars, tv's etc. I am all for that if we go to paying the same price for a house as it cost us in china. Or if I can hire an airline pilot and plane to take me somewhere for the same price etc etc. THE UNION EMPLOYEE MAKES A LIVING WAGE SO THAT HE CAN AFFORD TO PURCHASE ITEMS IN THE UNITED STATES ALLOWING OTHER EMPLOYEES AND BUISNESSES TO STAY IN BUISNESS.

 

[gemini5362]

Before I forget Sub Standard Workers? is that what i read in a couple of posts. Those sub standard workers did one great job making my silverado.

Anyone that wants to msg me privately about how the unions are protecting jobs for sub standard workers please feel to msg me. I will give you actual facts and cases (without names of course) of workers whose jobs I have saved since I am an advocate and I am one of the people that go into arbitration and save all those jobs you are talking about. The only thing I ask if you msg me dont start with rumors and inuendos. I can provide either facts of cases I have done or acutal arbitration cases I have studied the arbitration awards. Please be able to give facts.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

While we are talking about over all labor costs I am sure some of the high figures being bandied about on here involve health insurance. I dont see any one blaming the doctors and the hospitals for those costs.

I didn't read the rest of your post as this one caught my attention. If there is any one postition in the US I feel should be compensated well that is the doctors and nurses. These are the people who fix us and care for us when we are injured. The medical industry should easily have the top wages and not assembly line work and the two pay scales should not even be close.

My view on this thing is that there are a couple of American Axle plants about 40 miles from me. They have pushed American Axle to the point where they are about to go under. What are the workers hoping to accomplish? If I was American Axle I would change my name to North American Axle and move operations 40 miles north into Canada and be done with it. The workers do not care about the company, they only care about their own bottom line and they are willing to bankrupt the company to get what they want. Right now they are using that fact as a bargining chip. They know American Axle isn't as prosperous as they once were and they are using the strike to force their demands or else the company will go under. All they are doing is cutting their own throats in this situation and the workers they like to showcase on the news are all happy and proud to be striking. I know there have to be others that disagree with the union but I doubt they have much say in the matter. When all is said and done Buffalo will lose a couple more plants and a bunch more people will be in the welfare line. American Axle already shut down one plant up here a few years ago, now it looks like we will lose the other two

On the bright side Toronto is doing great so the workers can proably find work in Canada if they want to drive an hour. There are not very many jobs in WNY and very few companies want to move here because of our taxes but hey, the union is looking out for these workers right I mean the Union will find them all new jobs here once American Axle is bankrupt, right?

 

[AKfish]

I didn't grow up in a Union household. But I spent my formative year's immersed in the hardships of people who survived the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl year's...

Those people can remember when there was no Social Security and no Worker's Comp and no Medicare or Medicade and a retirement pension was not even mentioned in Webster's Dictionary.

There were 2 classes of people in this country... The rich and then the rest of us.

If you got sick or injured or crippled at work; your family was most likely gonna be on the street in short order or all livin in 3 rooms with grandma and grandpa!

After FDR and the changes that came about in this nation -- I was able to experience the greatest year's that this country has ever had for those people who were able to rise above the ranks of hand-to-mouth laborers.

I went to college. I have a retirement. My 84 yr. old father has one eye, steel plates in his pelvis (fixin' fence and wrecked his 4-wheeler at 75yrs) and he's got Social Security.

Unions have fostered economic circumstances that were not always reasonable and prudent. But the current economic playing field in the U.S. is so skewed towards the boardroom and the upper echelon that beating up the slobs on the assembly line is a fool's parody!!

People, people -- remember Charles Keating, Bernie Ebbers, Ken Lay?? Enron, WorldCom, TyCo... Good grief; how many other companies have gone down the toilet due to the incomprehensible greed and corruption of business leadership?

Right now; in this day and age, there are hedge fund managers on Wall Street who make -- on an individual basis --- a Billion dollars (that's with a B) a year and pay an income tax rate of 15% on those earnings. (Write Sen. Charles Schumer's office (D) NY and ask him about it.)

Compensation for CEO's and CCEO's and those in the upper 4-5 layer's is soooo far out in the ozone in this country right now that it's numbing...

And as long as everyday workin' stiffs fail to "keep their eyes on the pea" those guys in the boardrooms and upstairs in the refrigerated boxes at the stadiums will gladly keep movin' the shells...

AKfish