Grapple Grappling for answers on Grapples

[tlbuser]

Only big bulldozers can just lower their rake blade and plow through territory. The rest of us do it piece by piece so there is no benefit to having a grapple as wide as your bucket.

Big being a key word there. We use a toolbar/ripper (like on a box blade) and or disc set (add considerable weight) to cut roots before final rake, grade and seed.

 

[EddieWalker]

With a clamshell grapple the bottom tines are vertical or close to it and there is no horizontal base for logs to rest on so they can be held in place by gravity. Instead all gripping is "active" and depends on the shape and size of the load.

I'm going to disagree with this statement. I've only used my grapple, so I'm no expert and I can't say one way or another which is better. I can say that with a Rake Grapple, which is what I believe is also being called a "clamshell grapple" that the ability of the grapple to tilt back allows the weight of the load to rest on the grapple. You do not have to carry the log, or whatever you are carrying, in the virticle posting. Just tile the grapple back like you would a load of dirt in your bucket. All the weight is then on the rake grapple, and the grapple itself is just holding it in place.

On mine, I chose the Rake style because I didn't want to have to slide the grapple under what I was picking up. I wanted the ability to just open the grapple and pick up what what there without any pushing or sliding. It doesn't actually work that way because I do a small amout of pushing to add more branches to the load that I'm picking up. If I want to pick up one or just a few things, I can do it that way, but in a big clean up, I'm out to get as much as possible.

On my grapple, I have two arms that lower on either side. They are on the same hydraulic line and when the first one hits something, it stops moving and the second one keeps going. When they both come into contact with the load, they tighten up. This way, I can carry verry uneven loads that do not come loose.

Here are a few pictures of my setup.

Eddie

 

[marksmu]

The rest of us do it piece by piece so there is no benefit to having a grapple as wide as your bucket.[/QUOTE]


I disagree....there are several advantages to grapples wider than your tires, it just depends on what use you are putting it to.

I am removing debris from a fenceline, if my grapple wasnt wider than my tires, I would have to approach the line, grab a small 8-9' section and back away....

since my grapple is wider than my tires, I can run it along the fenceline till I have alot piled up, then close and back away. If my tires were inside my bucket width, I would have make literally hundreds of addittional passes.

 

[IslandTractor]

I disagree....there are several advantages to grapples wider than your tires, it just depends on what use you are putting it to.

I am removing debris from a fenceline, if my grapple wasnt wider than my tires, I would have to approach the line, grab a small 8-9' section and back away....

since my grapple is wider than my tires, I can run it along the fenceline till I have alot piled up, then close and back away. If my tires were inside my bucket width, I would have make literally hundreds of addittional passes.

I see what you are talking about but that is a very specific indication where an offset grapple or one wider than your tires is indeed beneficial. An offset flail mower could also do that job.

For more typical grappling, especially brush or root clearing however a wide grapple would often just either get in the way or more importantly limits your ability to focus all the lift or digging in a small area. There is a reason that backhoes don't have six foot buckets and the same principle applies to grapples. A narrow grapple not only allows you to focus power in a smaller area but allows you to get between bushes or small trees to selectively grapple things. Brush sticks together so a narrow grapple can basically grab as big a pile of brush as you'd ever want (way more than you can see around) and logs or trees really don't care what size grapple you are lifting them with as you can stablize the load regardless of grapple size. If I am "root grappling" as in putting the tines under the dirt and driving forwards, I will lose traction or stall with a wider grapple well before I would with a narrow grapple too.

The bottom line is that for most grapple uses a narrow grapple works just as well or better and is more flexible. It also weighs less and costs less. There are certainly some people who will benefit from a wider grapple, your example is one, but I've yet to hear someone on TBN who bought a 48 inch grapple and then complained that they wished they'd gotten the 72 inch model.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island, do you think the Markham would be as capable as the Millonzi in root raking or are the Markham tins flat configuration a disadvantage for this purpose?

I guess if I had a Markham I would do more picking up and carrying than pushing and raking with a WR Long, but I need to remove stumps and roots.

I had my land logged and now clearing the steep slopes to open the mountain view. I have logs and treetops scattered about. I have been pushing into piles with the loader and burning, but this is a slow process and I can only push down or up due to the steepness.

I have never used a truly flat bottomed grapple but most open bottom grapples are made that way (just like the Markham). My Millonzi has a slight curve to the bottom and I find it useful to get leverage on roots etc. I suspect that any difference in function is pretty small though and I wouldn't hesitate to get a Markham 48 to replace mine if it walked off some day.

I don't know why builders choose the flat bottom other than that they can just start off with flat stock rather than CAD cutting a curved bottom. Maybe that is cost savings enough to justify the flat bottom. For some uses like picking up construction debris the flat bottom is probably preferred. I wonder if Markham has the CAD equipment to do a "rocker" bottom grapple though. They do build them one at a time so it is essentially a semi custom shop anyway.

 

[Samandothers]

Wedge, Thanks for asking questions to help me ensure I cover the bases. The loader I have has the Univeral Skid Steer Quick Attach. I do need to ensure when I pick a valve that the line connections are the same and quick disconnects. I want to have the quick disconnects at the grapple as well a near the loader attachment so I can quickly disconnect from the loader or the grapple. I am not familar with hydraulic fittings. The Markham grapple comes with flat face Parker couplings and Hoses.

 

[IslandTractor]

Wedge, Thanks for asking questions to help me ensure I cover the bases. The loader I have has the Univeral Skid Steer Quick Attach. I do need to ensure when I pick a valve that the line connections are the same and quick disconnects. I want to have the quick disconnects at the grapple as well a near the loader attachment so I can quickly disconnect from the loader or the grapple. I am not familar with hydraulic fittings. The Markham grapple comes with flat face Parker couplings and Hoses.

Not sure what you mean by wanting to disconnect at both the grapple and the loader attachment. Usually the grapple has a set of hoses connected via SAE or JIC fittings (not quick connects) at the grapple cylinder and then about 5 feet or so of hose that terminates with quick connects at the FEL torque tube. The FEL would typically have lines that run to the torque tube with the matching quick connects to fit the grapple.

For some reason Markham continues to provide the flat faced skid steer style quick connects instead of the more commonly used Pioneer style quick connects on tractors. Both types work but I would personally switch the flat face for Pioneer "CUT" style quick connects which are the same as what you would use on rear remotes.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm going to disagree with this statement. I've only used my grapple, so I'm no expert and I can't say one way or another which is better. I can say that with a Rake Grapple, which is what I believe is also being called a "clamshell grapple" that the ability of the grapple to tilt back allows the weight of the load to rest on the grapple. You do not have to carry the log, or whatever you are carrying, in the virticle posting. Just tile the grapple back like you would a load of dirt in your bucket. All the weight is then on the rake grapple, and the grapple itself is just holding it in place.......Eddie

Yep, I see what you are talking about on your first photo. Here are the equivalent grapple positions achieveable with a open bottom grapple. There does seem to be a lot more room for a load that is held in place by gravity alone with the open bottom style but as your photo clearly shows you can also do that with the clamshell.

 

[wedge40]

Wedge, Thanks for asking questions to help me ensure I cover the bases. The loader I have has the Univeral Skid Steer Quick Attach. I do need to ensure when I pick a valve that the line connections are the same and quick disconnects. I want to have the quick disconnects at the grapple as well a near the loader attachment so I can quickly disconnect from the loader or the grapple. I am not familar with hydraulic fittings. The Markham grapple comes with flat face Parker couplings and Hoses.

I have a remote on my tractor that I'm going to use. It has agricultural (pioneer) style connectors. I already have two hoses coming off this remote. The remote is part of the 3pt hitch and is under the seat. It has "banjo" fittings at the tractor, then QD's on the end. I plan on having some "extension" hoses made to run up to the hoses already supplied with the grapple. All will be with agricultural/pioneer style QD's. My grapple came with Skid steer QD's which will have to be switched out with ag QD's.
I'm hoping my hydraulic shop will give me credit for the SS QD's. Seems like they are about twice the cost or Ag. QD's.

When I remove the grapple, I can leave the extension hoses with the grapple and then will only have two short hoses at the tractor.

Wedge

 

[Samandothers]

Island,
What I am wanting to ensure is when I remove the loader from the tractor I can disconnect the lines running to the front torque tube as easliy as I can the ones that feed the loader up down and curl. These QD's are near the loader mount.
I also want to be able to via QD's remove the grapple and reinstall bucket at the troque tube.

I am not familar with hydraulic connections so I will have to work through ensuring the grapple connections and connectoins from the loader mate.