HARD DECISION

[KrumpsBrother]

I can find parts for a john deere, massey ferguson, new hollland, case, or kubota with a quick thumb through the phone book. I can't do that with a mahindra and that's worth a lot of $$$ to me for the convenience of being able to fix my machine in a couple of hours vs. a couple of weeks waiting for parts to arrive from india.
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Perhaps you can help this guy with his non off brand JD?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/jd-owning-operating/104487-reman-deere-engines.html#post1188296
KB

 

[RoyJackson]

Perhaps you can help this guy with his non off brand JD?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/jd-owning-operating/104487-reman-deere-engines.html#post1188296
KB

Not a particularly good example as this tractor has been out of production for 18 years. I'd be surprised if that engine is not available...perhaps not in the Deere configuration though.

 

[canoetrpr]

Around here where we are generally behind our American cousins in all new things tractor, I'd say that Mahindra and heck even Kioti are off brands. The closest (and only) Mahindra dealer within driving distance is about 2 hours away.

Kioti seems to be developing nicely as an alternative with two dealers now within driving distance. Both were basically used tractor dealers that now carry Kioti. More and more people are talking about Kioti so I would say that they are on the cusp of being main stream

I suppose this really depends on what you define as "off-brand". They may be fine fine tractors (I've seent he Kioti and I believe it is), but reputation is built over long long periods of time. I don't mean to imply that either is in any way inferior.

I think that the issue wrt. warranty is interesting. While I bought a Kubota L3400 new, warranty had very little to do with it. You take your chances anytime you buy a piece of machinery - new or used. The machine is going to be out of warranty after a very small part of its life - for a tractor especially.

Tractors are fairly simple machines IMHO (for the most part anyway). From a practical sense - if you've got a 3 pt hitch, hydraulics, power steering, PTO, is there functionally much difference between an older machine and a newer? HST I can understand, 4wd is more common now - but really - how much other functional technology difference exists between tractors of say 20 years ago and my new L3400 - not a heck of a lot I would say.

When I look around I see a LOT of old Massey's running here, 135, 165 and 231 are all very popular around here. They sell for about what the original owners may have paid. These are proven machines that are pulling their weight and have been for a long long time.

 

[RoyJackson]

"I suppose this really depends on what you define as "off-brand"."

Good point...for me, it's the factory/dealer support network, or lack of might be a better way to put it.
I'll buy a brand that has an established network. Even if a Deere dealer sold Mihandra (which I'm using as an example...substitute any other lesser known brand), if they don't sell enough, it's likely they'll drop the brand or not maintain enough parts.
I wrote in another post...I don't want to drive more then 20-25 miles to pick up parts or consumables items such as filters.

 

[Crash101]

Read the original question, read the very first replay and totally agreed with it. Then read the next 6 pages. Still agree with the first reply.

 

[canoetrpr]

Good point...for me, it's the factory/dealer support network, or lack of might be a better way to put it.
I'll buy a brand that has an established network. Even if a Deere dealer sold Mihandra (which I'm using as an example...substitute any other lesser known brand), if they don't sell enough, it's likely they'll drop the brand or not maintain enough parts.

Wrt. parts support, I *think* that what is also implied when folks talk about factory/dealer network / parts support is not only necessarily what exists now but what will exist 10 to 20 and more years from now.

I'm sure that the current Mahindra parts network is pretty decent particularly in the areas that some owners have posted about. 4 or 5 dealers within 100 miles is great. However, its hard to predict what the part support will be like 30 years from now. Hopefully these lesser known brands will grow - consumers generally benefit from increased competition, and all will be well... however, it is understandable given how many other brands have come and gone, to question whether a brand is upto what we have come to expect (wrt. parts support in the long term) from the more established brands.

It is all a question of demand and supply. MF could go under tomorrow and I'll bet that there will still be great support for parts. There are so many tractors that are out there, the demand will exist and the supply will follow from aftermarket suppliers. You can't make the same claim for a lesser known brand.

All it is is a matter of time that a brand and dealer network has been around. More time and more products out there and the confidence will grow. Around here Mahindra and Kioti are definately not at the point where I can predict with some confidence that parts support will be good in 20 years or so.

 

[Travis_R]

I had a Mahindra and absolutely loved it. Wish I wouldn't have sold it. We have 3-4 dealers that are somewhat around here. 2 are what I consider driving distance, but I do like to "drive through the country" sometimes just to go to a particular dealership. (LOL!)

As we all know, I am fixing to buy a Massey Ferguson. The closest MF dealer is about 40 miles away, and the other one that I know of is about 60 miles away. Thats not too good for me, being that I am fixing to buy one.....but....if I need parts, I could go up to the "local tractor parts store"- who sells used tractors and can get any part I need for my tractor- even if its aftermarket- overnnight.OR, get them online from several places......Mahindra just isn't quite there yet (but that is not the reason I am not buying one). I went through several situations when I had my 485 DI. Don't know for sure, but that could have been a dealer's error though.

If everything goes well, I will be buying a 231 next Saturday.

Travis R

 

[Keith_B]

Don't try to confuse anyone with things like hard facts. Some of these guys KNOW shiney paint and lots of contoured plastic and chrome make for a better tractor than things like HP, time tested designs, resale value, and those other useless features

And how useless is years of practical experience with all sorts of tractors. Why would that qualify anyone to make a judgement on the subject? LOL!

FWJ, The basic design of the 3525, which comes from the old IH B275, is about as old as the design on the 231, which goes back to the MF 35. Yet the MF design is time tested, and the Mahindra's is not?

Personally I know a lot of people that bought new 231 and 231S MFs back when they were selling them at what seemed to be really good prices ($11,500 to $12,000 in '99). Most folks in my area that counted on them for farm use have gotten rid of them, because they were plagued with problems. It seems that even though those tractors shared a lot of the old 35 and 135 design they did not share the same quality. I know one guy that got rid of his 231 after only a few years and got an older tractor that would be more dependable to use to raise his 10,000 lbs or so of tobacco.

The 231 was built in Poland and imported to the U.S. The same tractor is still available new as an URSUS brand, and is built in the same factory as the 231.

Some folks have complained about 231 parts availability, as it was not standardized with the 240 and other Masseys and underwent some production changes.

I once considered a new 231 and later a 231S, but their reps scared me off when I got to checking on the problems people were having with them. The Perkins engine seemed to never be a problem, but hydraulics and transmission problems seemed pretty common.

An interesting sidenote, for those into tractor brand wars. Some of the Mahindras and Masseys actually share common parts. The TYM built Mahindras and the compact 15 series Masseys have the same components from the tranny rearward.

 

[Keith_B]

Day before yesterday, I went and used my neighbor's 97' (?) MF 231 at his house cutting some of his grass with an old LMC Andy 500 5' cutter. He has 710 hours on the meter. The seat time for me was about 25 minutes. I Really liked it alot too, but the turning radius was not good at all, I found. But his power steering wasn't working either because one of the fittings was broke off the right side booster cylinder down by the front axle.


I realize that comparing the MF231 and the Mahindra 3525 isn't exactly "apples to apples". But those are the 2 tractors I am interested in so I had to see which one I liked better.

All in all, I found that the 231 Massey Ferguson came out the winner. I absolutely loved how that Perkins engine loped! I absolutely loved where the foot throttle was located, on the foot rest. Best of all, I love how that "low profile" design is. Sitting in the pan style seat with your feet on the foot rests, sort of having to look over the hood- made me feel like I was on a beast! As low as I was sitting, I felt like I was on top of a mountain! Everyone was looking at me!- Although there was no one around. (LOL!) Being that it can handle a 6' bush hog (and thats what i'll be doing commercially) was a huge factor also.

So, I am gonna buy a Massey Ferguson 231. I am looking at a few right now. Just as soon as someone buys my Yanmar YM2500, 6 month old 5' Sitrex finising mower, and my 5' King Kutter bush hog.....hint....hint.....!

Again, as I have mentioned in older posts on here, I would put ANY Mahindra tractor up against the other colors in the same class/category. I am that confident in them. I mean heck, I am comparing a Mahindra tractor with another brand RIGHT NOW that is really not even a fair, or "apples to apples" comparison.

Thanks for all the input. It is GREATLY appreciated.

Travis R

Tell me you're joking about using a MF 231 commercially!!! The farmers in my area got rid of them because they didn't hold up, especially the hydraulics. Lots of complaints about steering and 3PH failures. I was going to buy one the bank had for sale a couple of years ago. It was a great looking tractor, the Perkins purred. When I started looking at it closely the hydraulics and steering were crap. The 3 PH barely worked and the power steering didn't work. It sold for around $4000.

I'm a big MF fan, but the 231 is not one I would own. The 240 can be had for the same money or less, and it is a better tractor.

 

[Keith_B]

I can find parts for a john deere, massey ferguson, new hollland, case, or kubota with a quick thumb through the phone book. I can't do that with a mahindra and that's worth a lot of $$$ to me for the convenience of being able to fix my machine in a couple of hours vs. a couple of weeks waiting for parts to arrive from india.

Within about the same distance from me as my Mahindra dealer are Deere, Massey, NH, Kubota, McCormick, Long, etc. Not one of the dealers carries every part ever made for the tractors sold by the companies they represent. The guys at the parts counters keep a list of backordered items, and there are unavailable items that they can not stock to sell.

I have been reading the Mahindra forum since well before I purchased my tractor, and have yet to see a single complaint made by anyone that they cannot get parts. The dealer I purchased my Mahindra from said he never had any problems getting parts, that most items that weren't in stock could be overnighted from Georgia or Texas.

Living in the 21st century I have found that I can get just about any part I want for most any kind of tractor, assuming the tractor isn't vintage and the part is no longer in production, via the internet. Even then I can get many parts that are used online. The Mahindra parts are no different. There are several long-time Mahindra dealers right here on TBN that are willing to get parts to Mahindra owners.

Even items like Filters don't seem to be an issue with the Mahindra. For example, I get my oil filters at Advance Auto Parts; but can get them at Walmart, NAPA, or any other distributor of commonly used oil filters.

Mahindra isn't a fly by night outfit. They have been around since the 40's and have been a major player in the world market. When they came to the US in '94 they offered one model, since then they have expanded their product line and now sell 34 different models.

Earlier in this thread someone tried to make light of Mahindra's new presence in China, with the purchase of the plant that formerly built Lenar tractors.

John Deere has a present manufacturing plant in China. This is from the Deere website @ General Information Deere & Company :

John Deere factories are located in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, China, Finland, France, Germany, India, Mexico, New Zealand, The Netherlands, Russia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, and the United States. Affiliated companies produce John Deere products in the United States and South America.

CNH has a manufacturing presence in China, and has had since 2001: CNH | About Us | Locations | Joint Ventures

Kubota has had a manufacturing products in China since '99. Kubota Ltd - joint venture in China with Marubeni Corp - Brief Article Diesel Progress North American Edition - Find Articles