Help from Road Builders

Gittyup · Aug 3, 2008

I need some advice on what/how to prevent erosion from washing out the driveway that I am building. It's still under construction. So, almost anything goes as far as solutions. Rather than repost photos, etc. here is a link to another post witht the information. Any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1455690#post1455690

coobie · Aug 3, 2008

Gittyup said:
I need some advice on what/how to prevent erosion from washing out the driveway that I am building. It's still under construction. So, almost anything goes as far as solutions. Rather than repost photos, etc. here is a link to another post witht the information. Any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1455690#post1455690

We maintain our road where I live.I would say to keep a good crown on the road and try to keep as many big rocks or field stone towards the ditches for water flow.We recently (1-2years) had ground up asphalt put down on our road,this great stuff and has held up the best from anything we have tried.coobie

Charlesaf3 · Aug 3, 2008

Crown it, Put drainage ditches on the side, and use 3/4 crusher run as the surface after compacting and crowning. Put culverts where the water wants to cross the road.

Gittyup · Aug 3, 2008

Thanks for the suggestions. Crowning makes since on the straight parts...mostly. But, shouldn't the curve be banked to the inside to prevent sliding off the lower side of the road in the turn? The Walnut trees would stop you, but I'd rather gravity did that. Also the side where the concrete is laying is a very steep drop off. Get off there and your sure to roll over to the bottom. I would think I wouldn't want to bank (crown) to that side at all. That is why I sloped it toward the left side, to try and get the water at the top to the left as much as possible and channel it down that side. To do this, I thought I might have to install a break or channel culvert diagonally about half way down the hill to catch run-off. But, I've never done this before and so don't really know if any of what I said makes any since at all.

jmfox · Aug 4, 2008

I believe the entire road can be pitched rather than both sides.

jmf

mrutkaus · Aug 4, 2008

Imagine you are the water, look where you want to go, and make it easy and quick for yourself to get off the road.

Mike

Charlesaf3 · Aug 4, 2008

you can pitch the whole road. But you really shouldn't be driving on a non paved road at speeds where banking is an issue...

atgreene · Aug 4, 2008

I bank many of the driveways that I rebuild, sometimes it's your only option. The downfall is when it is icey, when straddling a crown it's hard to slide off a road, if pitched one way you may slide where the water goes

.

Anything that isn't travel area cover with grass, buckwheat, erosion mulch or at least hay to keep it from eroding. Water running off an imperviuos surface like gravel or reclaim can destroy your shoulders without something to hold it.

Good luck.

Gittyup · Aug 4, 2008

Speed in the turn isn't the issue (you'd have to be a complete idiot to try and go fast on this thing). It's more about gravity combined with turning that would tend to pull one off the downhill side of the turn. So, I thought I'd at least make it flat in the turn or slight banked inward. Not sure how I would go about crowning in such a situation.

Both shoulders are covered with either stone or concrete chunks. The targeted drainage shoulder has a lot of stone on it. When I'm done filling/grading I plan to trench down the left side in front of the stone and then pull the stone into the trench (assuming I don't crown).

As for ice, I just won't use it when it's like that. There is no way I could climb it under such conditions anyway. I'd surely end up off the road just like the water.

Another Q: Should I use geotextile?

Thanks for the feedback.

daTeacha · Aug 4, 2008

When loggers build a road into a forest, Best Management Practices or BMPs require them to build "water bars" to keep the water from eroding the road. These are basically small sections of the road that direct the water from the travelled surface to the side and downhill. You can probably get information on the web or from your state DNR or SWCD. Look under logging BMPs or maybe waterbars on the web.

My drive is on a hill, runs up and across the sidehill for part of it and straight up the slope for another part. The part on the sidehill is curved with the outside of the curve on the natural downhill side.

I had the guys who put it in bank the outside, downhill, side higher than the inside. They laid in very large broken rock and drove over that with the dozer. Then they laid in crusher run and ran over it with a rented vibrating roller. I had them put a top coat of dolomitic limestone on it. The thing is now going on 6 years old and has had very little erosion. When something starts, I grade it promptly with my backblade, putting larger stone where I want the water to flow, along the inside of the curve. In winter, I plow it regularly and maintain the grade while piling the plow wash up as ridges on either side. When we get ice, I use my toothbar to scrape down through it to the gravel and then spread that along the surface. The only who ever got stuck is my teenage stepson, whom I found sideways in the drive last winter. I got in his car and resolved the problem while giving him a lesson in snow driving.

atgreene · Aug 4, 2008

Geotex under the road? Or on the slopes? I use geotex under rip-rap from time to time. It works great for muddy areas of road, as well. I suspect you don't need it. Erosion mulch on the edges will do what you need.

tommu56 · Aug 4, 2008

google water bars and or dirt roads

I've put water bars in our road to my cabin and they work! added benefit
they act as speed bumps.

tommu

Gittyup · Aug 4, 2008

Thanks everyone for the inputs. I'm familiar with water bars. If it starts to erode on me, then I'll go that route.

For now, I've decided to crown the top down to where it exits cuting through the bank, and then left slope from there. At the end of the crown on the right I've cut a drainage way over the side for the water to run. Plenty of trees, shrubs, rocks, grasses etc over there to prevent erosion. It's a fairly short run anyway of only about 30'. There will be a little hump there on the side where it changes from crowned to left sloping that will serve to direct the water over the right side rather than straight down the drive. I'll take some more photos once I get it graded out.

At the bottom, after the turn, there is a flat spot that seems to stay wet. I think I'll use geotex across this flat area only. Was a little concerned it might slide down the hill anyway.

I still think I need about 40 more tons or so of fill at the bottom in the turn. So, I'm still looking for fill. Guy brought me a small 4 ton load today. Nice dirt too, just not enough. Since I won't be stoning it until spring, I've got time anyway.

Soundguy · Aug 5, 2008

Keep water diverted off of it.. keep water from pooling on it.. keep water from pooling around the bed as much as possible.

soundguy

Charlesaf3 · Aug 5, 2008

watch for subsoil water too, to expand on the above.

Basically, water is the roads enemy.

I don't think you'd regret geotextiles, but need is soil dependent.

As recommended on here you might want to buy a copy of "the Road Repair Handbook" off amazon.

VAChesterfield · Aug 5, 2008

Hi Gittyup, it sounds like you have settled on a solution that suits you.

However, for those who might come across this thread in the future, I suggest checking out the fact sheets available from the Portland, Maine water district. Portland Water District - Publications Skip down to the Conservation Fact Sheet Series.

They have good and reasonably detailed information about erosion control for home owners for roadways, paths, and walkways to include information on waterbars, open top culverts , Rubber Razor Blades.

atgreene · Aug 5, 2008

VAChesterfield said:
Hi Gittyup, it sounds like you have settled on a solution that suits you.

However, for those who might come across this thread in the future, I suggest checking out the fact sheets available from the Portland, Maine water district. Portland Water District - Publications Skip down to the Conservation Fact Sheet Series.

They have good and reasonably detailed information about erosion control for home owners for roadways, paths, and walkways to include information on waterbars, open top culverts , Rubber Razor Blades.

VACHESTERFIELD, lol, I had to chuckle when I saw your link. I do a lot of erosion control projects for The Portland Water District. Here's a link to my web page with some pics of some work I did at their at their Ecology Center.

Shoreland Preservation / Repair

And a pic.