Help me identify this backhoe attachment

[bbtank45]

Yeah, im up in the air on how i feel about the seat moving with the boom....im not going to be using this every day. Either way, ill make subtle sacrifices to make it work for me.

Primary use will be for a couple hundred feet of drainage line. Considering the factory pump was rated at a MAX of 10 gpm, and most of the Long brand tractors these were on had significantly less GPM pumps on them, im hoping to be fine using the tractor pump. If not, i still have the PTO pump. Below are the general specs on the hoe, as well as the PTO pump specs.

Specifications by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

2017100795153148 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

ben rogers ridge by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

ben lions den part 2 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

 

[ovrszd]

Oh yeah, you should be fine since the PTO pump was only 10 gpm. I was afraid it was something like 20 gpm.

We definitely share a hobby and could totally derail this thread!!!!

 

[majorwager]

Can't speak to the evolution of Long backhoes but I include 2 photos of my 1199B. Purchased new from Long in 1995. Controls upgraded on the "B" haven't used it since building a 50 x 120 horse barn in 1996. Complete perimeter concrete foundation. It worked quite well in rocky soil. Was told by Long rep at purchase, unit was built by koyker? Also bought a tractor loader from long and it was delivered w/ the koyker name imprinted on the arms. Backhoe may have been built by koyker to Long specs, so may differ from koyker branded hoes from same era.?

Would NOT sell mine for $1200, but mine always housed indoors., have 36 " grading bucket as well, also worked nicely. I made a channel iron frame mount for mine, simple to do. I would caution 3 point mount. Used it linkage mounted several times on a heavy IH 50hp utility tractor. Believe if used aggressively, it would rip linkage completely off the rear end. The hoe frame is the reservoir. Exercise care not to contaminate your tractor hyd fluid w/ any residual debris from hoe tank. Difficult to ever drain ALL residual oil.

 

[bbtank45]

Can't speak to the evolution of Long backhoes but I include 2 photos of my 1199B. Purchased new from Long in 1995. Controls upgraded on the "B" haven't used it since building a 50 x 120 horse barn in 1996. Complete perimeter concrete foundation. It worked quite well in rocky soil. Was told by Long rep at purchase, unit was built by koyker? Also bought a tractor loader from long and it was delivered w/ the koyker name imprinted on the arms. Backhoe may have been built by koyker to Long specs, so may differ from koyker branded hoes from same era.?

Would NOT sell mine for $1200, but mine always housed indoors., have 36 " grading bucket as well, also worked nicely. I made a channel iron frame mount for mine, simple to do. I would caution 3 point mount. Used it linkage mounted several times on a heavy IH 50hp utility tractor. Believe if used aggressively, it would rip linkage completely off the rear end. The hoe frame is the reservoir. Exercise care not to contaminate your tractor hyd fluid w/ any residual debris from hoe tank. Difficult to ever drain ALL residual oil.

Excellent advice and i really appreciate the comment and pictures. Makes me feel a little better about making the decision to purchase. The LONG tag on mine identifies it as a T200 model, not sure what the major differences are with the 1199's. I received a 12" bucket and an 18" bucket with mine.I will be hooking it up to the tractor (4025 Mahindra, 4900lbs) for the first time this evening. I am leaning towards fabricating a simple frame mount for attaching to the tractor once i get it hooked up....honestly the bushings and pins have little to no wear on them, everything is very tight.

I eliminated the frame tank from the hydraulic system. Pressure side comes directly from the tractor remotes into the Walvoil control valve. Return is plumbed through a CAT 30mic filter I added before going back to the tractor.

20180401_184206 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

20180324_174119 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

 

[CincyFlyer]

One little note on the seat moving with the boom: have you ever used a mini excavator?:thumbsup: The seat, and most everything else, moves with the boom! It will be easier to line things up by eye, at the least.

 

[bbtank45]

One little note on the seat moving with the boom: have you ever used a mini excavator? The seat, and most everything else, moves with the boom! It will be easier to line things up by eye, at the least.

Very solid point lol yes I have operated a mini ex.....very little.

 

[ovrszd]

One little note on the seat moving with the boom: have you ever used a mini excavator?:thumbsup: The seat, and most everything else, moves with the boom! It will be easier to line things up by eye, at the least.

I totally agree on a mini ex. This isn't going to be the same. But I believe the OP will adjust to it just fine. Actually won't know the difference if he's not operated a small hoe that doesn't do that.

Difference is a mini ex seat is forward or near center of pivot so you move "with" the boom. On this hoe the seat is behind pivot. A "swing" effect will be felt. No biggie. Just unusual design. Not sure why it was built that way.

 

[majorwager]

Ovrszd,,
Spent some Long days on my Long backhoe, definitively report that the seat swing is of absolutely NO consequence. In fact, if loading a truck or dump trailer, the sightline is an advantage. Also on the light excavators, I've used, the option existed to swing the entire cab or just the boom. Whether your neck rotates or whole body, still need to know where the bucket is emptied. And it is never unusual if it works.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep, as an operator we need to be flexible and adapt. Look at the adaptation required to run the various types of controls. My least favorite is foot swing.

 

[bbtank45]

Whipped up a heavy duty top link this weekend. 2" x 4"x .25" box tubing with .25" pin bushings. Also repositioned the stabilizers so the lower 3pt arms are parallel with the ground, transfering backhoe forces straight through the chassis of the tractor. Tonight/this week I will be working on the bracing to "lock-out" the 3pt in this position. On most setups setups, it appears the "locking out" is done by creating a connection from the top link to the backhoe, commonly with angle iron or 1/2" flat stock.

Am I safe to connect from the top link to the draw bar?. Are my forces up and down or laterally (side to side)?

20180408_162709 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

20180408_163628 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

20180408_182919 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

20180408_212018 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

20180408_182735 by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

 

[bbtank45]

In fact, could I run a heavy chain from the drawbar to the top link (closer to the BH)? Drew a small moment diagram and it looks like it would suffice as long as im not fighting lateral loads, which i would expect to be countered by the stabilizers.

 

[ovrszd]

My neighbor's Woods had a triangulated assembly that fastened to the hoe down by the lower pins, at the top where your top link fastens. Created a triangle forward whose top link fastened to the tractor's top link hitch. This assembly could be adjusted by removing bolts and reinstalling in different holes. This allowed the assembly to be modified to fit most any tractor. Also allowed the hoe to be carried at a different height by the tractor. Once it was attached to the tractor the 3pt lever was left in the fully lowered position. The geometry of the triangle held the hoe in place. I don't recall it placing any lateral loads on the tractor. Might try Google searching Woods backhoes and find a picture of it all.

I've read a few horror stories about 3pt hoes shearing the top link pin and/or breaking the top link bracketry on the tractor. If the hoe bucket is in the wrong position the hoe is free to tip toward the hoe boom and throw the operator into the hole. My neighbor never had any problems like this but he was using it on a good sized AG tractor.

 

[ovrszd]

Here's an Ad with pics the show the hitch pretty well.

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-attachment/for-sale/24573553/woods-bh1050

 

[bbtank45]

That appears to put all the load on the top link and pins. Would you agree that i could achieve the same effect if i chained from the drawbar up to the backhoe, close to the top pin.

Chain by Ben Burwinkel, on Flickr

 

[ovrszd]

Nope. You won't take any load off the top link with your chain idea. You also won't take any load off your 3pt and it will be required to hold the hoe at it's vertical position. That's bad.

I hated Geometry so will do a lousy job of explaining this. The Woods assembly creates a triangulated situation that removes all vertical weight from the 3pt hitch. As I said, the 3pt lever is kept in the lowered position. By adjusting the hitch you establish the carried height of the hoe. When you lower the stabilizers you relieve some of that duty from the tractor.

In my neighbor's case his tractor was overkill so the hoe never made the front of the tractor light. But the hoe created a "pull" force on the tractor and would try to drag it rearward. That force was exerted on the 3pt arms but in such a manner as to match their designed intent.

 

[bbtank45]

Interesting thought. How would you recommend I lock out the three point in my application?

 

[ovrszd]

By lock out, if you mean relieve vertical pressure from the 3pt, build a similar hitch as the Woods uses.

If you aren't worried about that pressure then run it like it is. Unless there's some missing pieces it's been used that way since new. :confused3:

I just think your 3pt is going to reach max load limit repeatedly as you dig. If you set the stabilizers and then lower the 3pt the weight of your tractor is never applied to stabilizing the hoe. I think you'll experience a LOT of movement of the hoe. Even when you swing to the side with a bucket full of material to dump. And digging to the side will probably be out of the question.

 

[bbtank45]

There are pieces missing, im fabricating to get it back to the proper setup. I suspect it was used incorrectly for a long time. Im wanting to transfer the weight of the tractor onto the hoe.

Im unsure what you mean by vertical pressure.


See post #15.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/304477-3-pt-backhoe-2.html

 

[ovrszd]

Without some kind of triangulation the 3pt lift has to maintain hoe ride height. So if you place yourself to dig with stabilizers down and 3pt lift lever positioned to hold and start digging. As soon as the stabilizers start buryin themselves, which they will, the 3pt lift will have to bear the load applied as you dig. Not sure how powerful the hoe is. It's possible it could exert more down pressure on the 3pt than it's intended to carry?

The woods style hitch firmly attaches the hoe to the tractor. Doesn't allow vertical or lateral movement.

 

[majorwager]

bbtank45,
Agree w/ previous comments. . Not sure your rear axle configuration. On the IH, we ran a 5" channel under the axle, with a large U bolt over the axle through the flanges of the channel. The channels extend forward to the rear mounting holes for the FEL loader brackets at trans housing . None of the excavating torque or wt is carried on link arms. This stabilizes the top link because when there is flex on lower links, stress on top link is multiplied. I definitively tell you this BH w/ its' wt + digging torque, can rip top link and lowers arms completely of your tractor.