Help taking apart a tiller gear box

[coaster]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, but I've read some good posts full of good advice here. So I was hoping that someone could help. I was using my BCS 715 a couple of days ago when I hit a root or some other tough object and the tines just stopped turning. The transmission still works and the PTO still works fine. I confirmed that by removing the attachment. For the tiller attachment, I noticed that I could turn the pinion shaft freely while the tines were still at rest. I assume that means that the beveled gear or the pinion shaft is broken. I would like to take the gear box apart to determine which one so that I can order a new part. I'm going without a service manual (I've learned that it's not easy to find one of them online - guess I have to order one). I'm to the point where I'm trying to remove the beveled gear, but it appears that the tine hub and the coupling have to be removed before that can happen. I see no easy way to do that. Any advice there?

Also for those who have any experience doing this, am I wasting my time? I have no idea as to the cost of either of those parts as compared to a complete gear box. I do not have a dealer close by.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Wooddust]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, but I've read some good posts full of good advice here. So I was hoping that someone could help. I was using my BCS 715 a couple of days ago when I hit a root or some other tough object and the tines just stopped turning. The transmission still works and the PTO still works fine. I confirmed that by removing the attachment. For the tiller attachment, I noticed that I could turn the pinion shaft freely while the tines were still at rest. I assume that means that the beveled gear or the pinion shaft is broken. I would like to take the gear box apart to determine which one so that I can order a new part. I'm going without a service manual (I've learned that it's not easy to find one of them online - guess I have to order one). I'm to the point where I'm trying to remove the beveled gear, but it appears that the tine hub and the coupling have to be removed before that can happen. I see no easy way to do that. Any advice there?

Also for those who have any experience doing this, am I wasting my time? I have no idea as to the cost of either of those parts as compared to a complete gear box. I do not have a dealer close by.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Have you contacted the manufacturer?

 

[coaster]

Wooddust, thanks for the reply. Yes, I did contact the manufacturer before I started taking this apart. They sent me a parts list via Email attachment. The parts list shows a decent parts explosion, but does not provide much info in regards to taking it apart. So I thought I'd try here. Maybe that's my only option though - contacting them for support or getting it to the nearest repair shop I can find.

 

[clytle374]

I'm not able to visualize what step you're on, can you post a pic?

I don't remember anything other than the parts break down in the manual.

 

[clytle374]

The blade holder flange(what I think you talking about) has a large nut holding in onto the shaft. It is also a taper fit.

The coupling(not sure why it is called that in the manual) is held on by 4 bolts.

 

[milkman]

I haven't had that problem, but a call to Joel at Earth Tools - Walk-Behind Tractors - (502) 484-3988 is where I'd start, he can help with info and parts.

 

[coaster]

Clytle,

Thanks for the reply. Inserting images seems to ask for a link, so I loaded to a Walmart photo album and grabbed the URL to that. I hope that works. If not, I'll figure it out. Oh, I also scanned the parts list page so that you can see what parts I'm referring to. I see the bolts for the coupling, but it seems that you'd have to remove the hub on that side before you can access the bolts.

Milkman, thanks for the info.

http://photos2.walmart.com/walmart/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=3977766002/a=19889209_19889209/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=walmart/

 

[Grut]

I am guessing bevel gear means you trying to get the ring gear out?
I just used the exploded parts diagram when removing mine to replace the side seals.
If so the shaft has a side load bearing and when I tore mine apart it broke removing. You will have to tap the shaft out mine was pretty styubborn. I read another post on here that stated a regular bearing could be put in place of the same size, wish I knew that about 6 years ago..bearing was $55.
Looking at Parts diagram #15 coupling is what gets removed from the gear box which will have the #24 Tine shaft and gear attached to it.

Let me know if you need any other help.

Grut

 

[Grut]

a puller will get the hubs off, looks like you already got the nuts and washers off.

 

[coaster]

Thanks, Grut. Sorry about the link. It had an option to share the photos via link, so I assumed that would lead you directly to the album without having to login. Yes, the beveled gear in my diagram is the shaft and gear all as one piece which runs through the gear box and has nuts on each side. I've removed those and from what you're saying I should just be able to tap it out. I just finished a conversation with the guy that Emailed the diagram and he says the same, I'll give that a try. I may have run across a post that said the same about the bearings $12.00 versus $55.00 I also asked about the costs for the pinion shaft and the gear - sounds like about $250.00 for those - wow. Maybe it's best to just buy a new attachment. Thanks, again.

 

[coaster]

Okay, I tried attaching some files - including the diagram. Preview looked good, so this should do it.

 

[coaster]

I was able to get the hubs and the coupling off. The bearings on the side of the coupling look good. I was going to try and push the ring gear and shaft (beveled gear) through, but I thought it might be good to take the end cover off first. After doing that, I'm beginning to think that I should have started there - ugghhh. After taking the end cover off, I can clearly see the ring gear and it appears to be in good shape still. So... I think I'll try pulling the pinion shaft from the front side if that works. Maybe I have to pull the ring gear out anyway to get to that - not sure. If the pinion shaft does not pull from the front, that's my only option. The diagram shows the pinion shaft from the rear of the box, so maybe that's the way it goes.

I'll update with a final post when all done (if I ever get there). For now, I'm good - thanks to you guys for all the help.

 

[clytle374]

The shaft has to come out the back of the box, so the ring gear has to be out first. Is that an extension on the tiller? If so maybe you got lucky and it broke?

 

[coaster]

Clytle, yep I did have to remove the ring gear - was able to tap that out without damaging the bearings. I was not as lucky though removing the pinion shaft (name?). As soon as I removed the ring gear and turned the box upside down, 8 teeth fell out - came right off the pinion shaft. The pinion shaft is 7 1/4" long. All said, it appears that I'll need the following parts: pinion shaft, gaskets for end cover and coupling and the bearing that goes on the end of the shaft inside the gear box. The ring gear has 27 teeth whereas the pinion shaft had 8 teeth.

I think Grut mentioned that maybe you can get the bearings cheaper elsewhere.

Again, thanks for all the info - you guys have been a big help. Attaching some other pics just for info:

 

[Grut]

Glad to hear all is tore apa.


Hey I bet gorrilla glue might hold those teeth on that bald shaft for ya--hahah
wow you said you hit something--man that takes alot of force to remove those so neatly!!

ya if you could find a nice used tiller that was babied that may be the way to go considering the parts cost.

Ya the side load bearing at the coupler I think was the one which could be replaced with just a stadard bearing of the same size according to "Pointers on rebuilding a BCS tiller gearbox" in this section

 

[coaster]

Thanks, Grut. You know, I was just thinking the same thing. It might be worth a shot to look for a used one and have the other stuff for parts. It might be worth it just considering the time spent (and to be spent) and the cost of the parts.

Yeah, the advertisement says that these things are pretty much unbreakable - I guess not. It was just a portion of my backyard that I'm tilling to reseed - it is pretty rocky ground, but I thought the BCS would not have too much of a problem with it. It was doing pretty good until that point. Makes me wonder if all the teeth went down all at once or if some were already in bad shape. The oil inside the gear box looked pretty good. The gaskets had pretty much dissolved away to nothing though. It is very old system though. I don't even have a date on the 715 itself, but it's got to be at least 25 to 30 years old. I paid $500.00 for it and a friend of mine swore that it was a steal. Looking at the prices of new ones, I think he's right. I should probably post a pic of the 715

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey Coaster,

Looks like I'm late to the party. I'm really shocked that shaft could be damaged like that. Were you tilling a parking lot? You have a newer style round-top tiller since it's a 3 dog PTO, making it even more surprising.

You'll find that shaft is well over $100. A new 20 inch tiller box is $500. By the time you buy all the necessary parts, you may as well pay the extra money and buy the new box. As others suggested, you could find a used box in time, but it could be awhile. Anyway you got a good buy. The tractor alone is worth $500.

Bill in WI

 

[clytle374]

wow, didn't expect that.

I thought someone had boughten just the gear box from Earthtools. Might want to check and see before buying a whole tiller.

 

[clytle374]

I'm wondering if the pinion shaft bearing race broke and first got between the ring and pinion gears, that would explain tearing the teeth off like that. I honestly thought that those gearboxes are strong enough to stop the engine cold. Is that a 5 or 8 hp motor? Either way, I think that is the same gearbox as the 30" tiller that Earthtools sells with 11 hp diesels. Our 715 ate a 1" steel pipe and stopped it cold, and it had an 11 hp Briggs on it.

Are the teeth wore real thin?

Really glad that you have that PTO adapter on there, I was worried for a minute that it was the 715 we sold this spring( to a guy in Virginia, but for more money) after I had the tiller gearbox apart to replaced the seals. The one we sold was older and the tractor had a spline PTO on it. Felt real bad for a minute.

 

[coaster]

Farmerboy, yeah you would think that I was tilling a parking lot, wouldn't you? At times, I felt like I was, but no it was just regular old hard rocky ground - good old VA clay.

Clytle, no worries. I know the guy I bought mine from. I think he took decent care of it. It's just one of those freak things.

To answer your questions though: it has an 8 hp Kohler engine. No, the teeth were really not worn thin at all - they were just separated from the pinion shaft - all of them. Hard to believe, isn't it. The tiller attachment is 26"