HELP with Diesel in Gas Engine Debate

FL_Cracker · Sep 14, 2005

First let me set the stage to my delima.

Last Wednesday & Thursday I noticed that my new Pacifica seemed to hesitate a little as I started to press the gas pedal. After just a second it caught up and ran fine. Friday afternoon when I started to leave work I noticed my fuel was only 5/8 full and it was a long weekend and their was a lot of talk about gas shortages. I ask one of my employees to top off my tank from one of our generator reserve tanks at work. By mistake he put about 8 gals. of diesel into the car with the existing 14 gals. of gas. (I don't know he put diesel in the tank at this time)

One the was home the car begins to run rough from a start but soon runs fine at higher speeds. We stop to eat and it idles really bad in parking lots but we make it home OK. (50-60 Miles)

Saturday my wife tries to go to the store but it runs really rough so she returns home after one block and takes my truck. (5 minutes run time)

Tuesday morning I start the car planning to drop it off at the dealer to have it check out. It starts but then stalls. I flood it trying to start it and give up. Called the tow truck and Chrysler tows it to the dealer.

The dealer calls and say it has diesel in the tank and I confirm my employee used the wrong tank.

The dealer quotes me $350.00 to drain the tank and get it going again but then insists on charging another $135.00 to clean the injectors. I disagreed with the injector cleaning but agree to the $485.00 bill and chock it up to just another bad day.

NOW' the dealer calls the next day with BAD news. Your spark plugs are no good, fuel pump is no good and fuel sending unit is shot. All caused be 33% diesel in the gas. The bill is now going to be $1268.00 Well I though a fit and argue that a little diesel is not going to ruin spark plugs, fuel pumps or sending units. They stand their ground and then tell me they called Chrysler and their engineers also agree that the cleaning agents could ruin the plugs, eat the bearing in the fuel pump and destroy the fuel sending unit. I still disagree and talk to the service manager and get nowhere.

I tell them to fix the car but save my parts and I'll NEVER be back nor will I ever buy another Chrysler product. (And yea, they really acted like they cared)

Now, I have the car back. They told be the plugs were bad and they tried to clean them but the car just would run on the old plugs. Tonight I wiped the old plugs off with a shop rags and found them to just have a little black carbon on the but nothing bad. I then installed the old plugs back in the car and it run great on the OLD plugs.

I'm headed to the dealer in the morning with fire in my eyes and just wonder if anyone had any insight about diesel additives that could ruin, hurt, destroy or other wise damage nylon bearing in a fuel pump or fuel sending units made of plastic, metal, wire etc.... Keep in mind that it was a 33% diesel, 66% gas mixture.

Any information would be a GREAT BIG HELP....

Thanks,

Charles

HGM · Sep 14, 2005

If it were the other way arround and you had a diesel with gas run through it, you could have many more issues.

As for your case, I dont know of any "additives" or properties of diesel fuel that would do dammage to the sending unit. Possibly the pump after some time, though the diluted ammount and the limited time it was in there.. Dont think so. Yes, the plugs will foul and consiquently missfire. Anymore, if a technician pulls the plugs out they will likely get changed. Cleaning is just something that doesnt happen any more. Beyond your troubles so far, you may experience issues from your o2 sensors. I surely wouldnt change them unless you had a check engine light or noticed fuel economy troubles though.

FL_Cracker · Sep 14, 2005

Thanks, my problem with the plugs is their statement that they were bad, BECAUSE the care would not run with the old plugs so they changed them. I put the BAD plugs back in and they worked fine. They were not fouled at all just a little black.

My feeling is they just thought they had a change to make a big sale....

Thanks,

Charles

DaveNay · Sep 14, 2005

Some quick Googling turned up the following:

The Straight Dope
About.com
faqs.org

Plus a few threads on usenet groups with various opinions. The prevalent opinion is that you did not do any permanant damage, perhaps the worst being new plugs and an O2 sensor. Nothing I found anywhere gave any indication of damage to seals, bearings, lines etc. This makes sense due to the fact that these same materials are going to be the primary materials used to build diesel fuel delivery systems also.

Dave

ScottAR · Sep 14, 2005

Most late model Mopar sending units and fuel pumps are sold as one unit. They don't seperate. Real bad for the cummins boys as it doesn't even have a pump in the tank and it's (was) $200.

I'm not buying the dirty plugs.

RobertN · Sep 14, 2005

My primary concern would be smog equipment. Not sure of your state regs, but Calif is the king of smog regs. The diesel would run fine, although sluggish. But, it would probably have a negative affect on the catalytic converter. The amount you mention on a low miles car would probably be negligable though.

On a lighter note, I knew a guy who used to run a little diesel in his car when he'd go to the mountians. He claimed it gave him extra power to pull the hills /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Mostly it just made the car sluggish, and it smoked a lot /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Junkman · Sep 14, 2005

I suggest that you shut your mouth, don't go back with any complaints, and steer clear of any more dealings with this dealership. If they want to, they can notify Chrysler that the car has been damaged and once that happens, Chrysler will cancel your warranty on the engine. In short, they are just hosing you, but you are not in a position to do anything about it, since they are in the "drivers seat". Remember that the Chrysler engineers work for Chrysler and don't give a hoot about you. I would talk to your insurance agent about this, in the event that at some time in the future, your engine goes bad and Chrysler blames it on the fuel. I don't believe that the fuel caused any damage, but they are in business to relieve you of as much of your money as they can. Sometimes it is best to just do nothing when you know that you have been had, and they still have the upper hand.
If it had been my car, I would have just siphoned out most of the gas and then taken the car for a ride to clean out any residue.
Junk..

FL_Cracker · Sep 14, 2005

Yes, now I wish I had done the work myself. But at the time I didn't know it had diesel in the tank. I still thought it had a warranty issue because it had been acting up for a few days. After the dealer told me it had diesel in the tank I then confirmed which tank my employee had used to fill the car.

Thanks,

Charles

JimR · Sep 14, 2005

As the Junkman stated.
In my opinion you got hosed. Ford doesn't use two diferrent fuel sending units in their turcks for gas and diesel. Dealers have good salespeople as service managers instead of a real mechanic. He's there to sell. I've been down that road with a few myself on warranty work and recalls. They will rip you off in a heartbeat.

InlineDieselFan · Sep 15, 2005

Cracker,

you got shafted, Daimler/Benz corporation does not believe in customer service. By time they did this and that check to discover the diesel in the tank, a good mechanic ie. not a parts changer; would have just siphoned/pumped the remaining fuel mix out filled it with gas. Then told you to go for a drive.

As mentioned they will likely put it into the computer that 'you' ruined your motor by putting the wrong type of fuel in, thus voiding your remaining warranty. In truth at worst you may have prematurally ruined an oxygen sensor and going by them (even though they work for you) the spark plugs.

steve

HGM · Sep 15, 2005

Dont forget that in most cases, the technician usually gets paid on flat-rate. The larger the job, the more he gets paid. He may have been able to justify the parts he recomended for your situation, though some are a stretch. The svc advisor is the "salesman" they refered to, took what he was told and put his spin on it to convince you it was needed. More than likely the warranty wont be affected. Typical dealer mentality is to get you while your there, if the Mfg Rep wasnt called in its likely they will forget about it. I agree though, you gota let it go. They got you this time, just make a note and use another dealer from here on out. I have issues with dealers because I worked with them for years and dont believe in some of their ethics and whatyou have to do as a tech to make a living. On the other hand, it is the only place you can get a factory trained person to work on your vehicle. For some things this is very important. I dont mean to slight the independant shops, but moet of them dont have the proper training and can cause more dammage to some systems costing you more in the long run. A reliable independant shop will know his limits and recomend a dealer for some items.

Like I said, I would have sold you plugs too. They had fouling if they were black. I agree they would have cleaned up over time, the advisor took the info and told you that it wouldnt run with them. I have seen advisors tell customers some pretty unrealistic things to sell a job.

Crutches · Sep 15, 2005

I used to see this all the time on motorcycles during Bikeweek in Daytona. I worked at the dealership and the new riders often put diesel in the tank instead of gas. We drained the tank and put in new plugs. The end! The rest of that story they told you is ridiculous. However, you may need to adjust the vision of your employee with a ballpeen hammer. That way, he can see the difference between gas and diesel. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

greatrandini · Sep 15, 2005

I am glad I am not the employee who put the diesel fuel in the Pacifica!!!!! I think they hosed him on the pump but they prob should have changed the plugs.. I don't like the way they sold him plugs but he prob should have changed them. It is not a brand specific thing either.. I can not own a ford or I will be disinherited by my father.... He got hosed on a merc trans... I got rid of good chevy astro van cuz the rear door handle broke. They wanted $135.00 to fix. I found out they all break and there are tech bulletins issued. I thougt why should they profit from something they know is bad. They should have recalled them. I traded it in on a chrysler van.. The wife won't buy chevy's cuz she got hosed on a Monte carlo in the seventies..... They are all bad.. A lady in my office bought a "certified used Toyota" Then she got in a wreck and found out it was wrecked before and not repaired properly... It is buyer beware out there.....

Junkman · Sep 15, 2005

That is why I haven't bought another Studebaker, Hudson, La Salle, Oakland, Star, Durant, or a host of other brands. They all had defects that they wouldn't fix for free. My 1928 Buick has never let me down. When better cars are built, Buick will build them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

420hondeere · Sep 15, 2005

I know a man that filled his new 79 f250 full of diesel, after 5 minutes of idling it died. He realized what he'd done he drug the truck home, parked over his inground tank and drained the truck. Filled it with gas, pulled it in gear with a tractor until it started running again. The engine outlasted 3 bodies!

TonyV · Sep 15, 2005

<font color="blue"> When better cars are built, Buick will build them. </font>

Me and my 49 Buick Roadmaster wholeheartedly agree. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

...Tony

JRobyn · Sep 15, 2005

I'd bet a box of Krispy Kremes that the dealership busted the pump and sending unit when they dropped and drained the tank and are covering their *ss with getting you to pay for it as "damaged" by the diesel!

Jagmandave · Sep 15, 2005

Yep, that's a likely scenario as well. I've never had a problem just draining the tank , refilling with gas and going, and this has happened to me more than once, but never by my own doing.......... You may have had to bleed the fuel lines to get gas to the injectors, but still no biggie. It's possible it could harm the O2 sensor, but I doubt it over so few miles. They got to you, it sounds like...........sorry...........

As to going and confronting the dealer, I think it will be a waste of time, but if it'll make you fell less ripped off, go for it........

One question. do you think the employee did it on purpose? Unhappy at being asked to do a job below his imagined station in the company or some such thing?

HGM · Sep 15, 2005

Crutches, never mind the vision, what about the smell???? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Stuff like that does happen alot, we see it alot when a salesman or someone who doesnt drive a diesel alot, they tend to add gas by accident.

So Junk, is quality the only reason you havent bought a Hudson or Studabaker lately? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FL_Cracker · Sep 16, 2005

Thanks to everyone.

There is something about be hosed that just never sits well with me. The worst part is when you KNOW going in they GOT YA!!!!!!!!!

I'll just have to do my part as a consumer and do a lot of talking to make sure everyone knows the truth about how they do business.....

Thanks again,

See ya later on TBN

Charles