help with old bike

[RobertN]

I know there are some cyclist here. I have some questions

I just got a late 1960's Motobecane Grand Record from my Uncle. He had got it back then, and tweaked the hardware a little bit. It is in good shape, but needs tires.

It has a Zeus rear derailer. I was told that it was a line that Campagnolo made. Does anyone know any background on this?

The rest of the running gear is Campy Record.

This bike is set up for tubular/sew-ups. The tires are gone.

Before I get tires, I was going to clean up the hubs/rims, repack the bearings etc. What would be best to use for removing the sew-up glue? Acetone, "Goo-gone", or ???

I have never run tubular tires(sew-ups). Where is the best place to get tires/tubes/thread/needle/glue? I rode a lot with my uncle when I was a kid in the 70's, but never saw him do any tire work on it.

I did a little searching; it appears sewups are still out there, but expensive? I just want a general touring type tire.

It's a great old bike, that has seen some good miles around the northern California foothills and mountians. I want to be able to ride it; I never did when I was a kid.

Thanks!

 

[Egon]

I've never used sew ups. They were are??? a very light tire used for racing. For your use I don't think they would be particularly practical.

A Google for bike accessories should give lots of choice for suppliers. Many are mail order.

Or change tire rims that will accommodate a more practical tire size. The rim and tires would have to fit clearances on the frame and for the brake caliphers.

You may need some special tools for the rear hub.

Bike Nashbar.com - Tires

I have bought stuff from this site in the past. I noted that the widest tire offered is 23mm. This will not make for a nice ride as if memory serves me correctly they will be at 80 or 90 PSI. I had some 22mm tire's on one of my bikes once. they were not comfortable.

 

[RobertN]

It has a Zeus rear derailer. I was told that it was a line that Campagnolo made. Does anyone know any background on this?

After some research, I found Zeus was it's own brand, and made some high quality "copies" of Campy equipment. Apparently they also made complete bikes.

I would like to change the back deraillier for matching Campy stuff. Seems older vintage stuff is on Ebay; just have to keep an eye out.

 

[Egon]

Remember Robert that the bike will not have a geometry that is friendly to nice ride and the seat will surely give you cause for thought as well as sores.

Chances are you have a top line bike of yesteryear which is still a good bike today.

The tires and seat may fall in disfavor!

Also remember the riding geometry is not that of an occasional ride bike!

I suspect you will have a bike that reacts to your slighted movement which is not compatible with recreational riding.

Boondox may correct me.

 

[RobertN]

Remember Robert that the bike will not have a geometry that is friendly to nice ride and the seat will surely give you cause for thought as well as sores.

Actually, it has a wonderful old Brooks leather saddle. And, I still have my old Ideal leather saddle. Both are in nice shape and should be very comfortable once they are broke in again.

I do believe though, that it will be a very reactive bike though, as far as handling and response go.

 

[RobS]

Hi Robert,

Nice find you have. I don't know that much about it but I would recommend visiting a local bike shop (LBS) and talk about the tires/wheels. You'll eventually run into a veteran who likes sewups and will help you out. They're pretty rare these days and all I really know is if you don't get them on right they can be dangerous. Alternatively, look for a book called "the complete book of bicycling" by Eugene Sloane. Find an older edition and you'll have the sew up info. There is definitely some technique to it, thus the LBS. If you do switch to clincher tires, it's new rims.

And you should know by now, posting something like this without pictures is punishable by loss of seat time, either bike or tractor!

 

[RobertN]

Hi Robert,

And you should know by now, posting something like this without pictures is punishable by loss of seat time, either bike or tractor!

I have been so buried with Scouts and work, pictures have been a side project Will work on that though; I want to send some to my Uncle to show progrees towards being on the road again.

 

[Egon]

Those old leather saddles may not be as accommodating as you remember. One does not really break in a saddle. Ones anatomy develops more blood vessels etc. to carry away heat and adapts to the saddle than the other way around.

Those wimpy spandex shorts with the chamy liner also make things go better.

Another important item is proper seat height. That also makes the ride easier and the the peddling is much less stressful.

 

[RobS]

Hey, both of my regular rides have leather saddles. It's just much thinner leather, narrower saddle and on titanium rails. And yes, the bike shorts work wonders, as does a bit of chamioux butter on the longer days.

 

[RobertN]

Those old leather saddles may not be as accommodating as you remember. One does not really break in a saddle. Ones anatomy develops more blood vessels etc. to carry away heat and adapts to the saddle than the other way around.

I have not ridden a lot lately. But, I used to do 1/2 centuries on local trails. My Ideal seat has a lot of miles on it. Best ride was when I was a kid; I did a 250 mile ride with my Uncles Scout patrol up around Lassen National Park in northern California(actually very close to where one of the fires has been).

I want to take a patrol from our Scout troop on a ride like that, but there is a lot more traffic and hazards than there was in 1975...

Yes, those cycling shorts are comfortable when riding... I aint much for wearing tights, but on a good bike ride, they are comfortable

 

[Egon]

I think you been holding back on us Robert. You got the expertise required with no help.

There was a time I did a lot of cycling both on road and Mountain Biking. There are some really nice trails around Jasper and Banff and there were quite a few in the local area where we lived.

I used to cycle Jasper to Banff every summer with my camping gear.

Since moving to Nova Scotia the biking has stopped. Mainly due to the narrow roads with no shoulders. But, ohh, would the roads make for nice cycling. Windy, scenic and hilly. Set the gearing up properly and one could easily hit 60 MPH on the downhills and a minute later be in the granny gear. Just like Saltspring Island.

And oh, did I mention I did not start serious cycling till I was about 40. In 1987 the whole family went on a bicycle tour of Southeast Alaska utilizing the Alaska Marine Highway. It's a trip I would surely like to do again. But first on the wish list would be a ride down The Danube River.

 

[RobertN]

I think you been holding back on us Robert. You got the expertise required with no help.

I have not done much lately, and most of what I have done has been on older used bikes. I have never personally worked with higher end stuff(ie. Campy). And, I have never worked with sew-ups.

When I was a kid, I used to help my Uncle work on bikes. In the mid 60's till early 80's, when he had a garage, he used to get used bikes, and rebuild/refurbish them. He would sell some, to keep his hobby going, but many of them he donated to local needy kids and charities. Some were simple 20" Stingray type bikes, up to nice 10 speeds.

My first road bike was a Schwinn Continental that we rebuilt from the ground up with nicer components, but nor Campy nice... All I have left from that bike is great memories and my leather saddle That is the bike I rode on the 250 miler when I was 12.

I have been to Banff, Kootenay, and Jasper; that would be a BEAUTIFUL place to ride

I just found out that REI locally has some nice road/touring sew-ups.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Hi Robert,

I have a Peugoet (Reynolds double butted tubing) of the same vintage - Motobecane is french., My Peugeot has tubulars and a set of clinchers. It also has all campy record and super record gear along with the brooks pro saddle. Double butted stainless spokes too. I grew up in a cycling/racing family. I have two other bikes whole and a bunch of frames and parts.

Zeus was made in Spain and looked like a campy copy. Ok stuff - not great. I have a bunch of their stuff kicking around - pedals etc.

Rubber cement thinner (or gas) will remove the glue from the rims. I think continental tires are still cheap - around $25 a pop... We always carried a lot of spares on the bike and with the support vehicle. We usually set aside a couple of days a month to repair the tubulars. The repair is a lot of work but you get better/quicker at it with experience.

If the saddle is dry. Place it in the oven - low temp for 15-30 minutes. This opens up the pores in the leather. Apply a lot of saddle soap. Brooks used to sell their own but any horse saddle soap will do. The leather will suck it in.

Keep applying as much as you can. We usually did this a couple of times a year as well as monthly applications with a cloth.

Campy requires mircro adjustments for perfection. Use a good grease - Phil Wood or Campagnola.

I would look at building a set of clinchers rims, cross 4 for strength. You can find alot of vintage hubs on line cheap.

The rims are probably metric 700c - correct?

Man this brings back memories... great find/present!

Keep us posted.
Lloyd

PS: other bikes are Peugoet mountain bike - one of the first ones made;
Torpado racing frame, Italia Touring bike - all campy and lots of odd parts.

 

[RobertN]

And you should know by now, posting something like this without pictures is punishable by loss of seat time, either bike or tractor!

This will start it... This is a picture of the group of Scouts I went on the 250 miler with in 1975. I am second from left, on a customized Schwinn that my Uncle and built. My uncle is wearing the helmet...

Note the bike gear for the day. Jeans. Sneakers. Collared shirt. Ball caps. We did 46 miles that day; the longest leg of the trip. In jeans

The second one is just me, somewhere near Sierraville.

This trip was from Truckee, Ca to Mt Lassen National Park, and half way back.

 

[RobertN]

And you should know by now, posting something like this without pictures is punishable by loss of seat time, either bike or tractor!

Some bike pictures.

I took the rims to a performance bike shop today. They pulled the rear gearset for me, so I can get to the bearing(clean and repack).

The gearset is with what is left of an old tire...

The shot of the rim has a small spot I have been able to clean, compared to the rest which is, well, old caked on glue.

The bike shop had a higher end Continental tire for $80. It was ready to run; the tube was sewn in already. I'm looking at other tire options... I'm just not ready for $160 to $200 for tires. Found some online(thanks Egon!) for a lot less; nice road tires instead of race tires.

You can see the fingertip shifters. I think this is the only bike I have seen with those.

The rubber covers on the brake handles are shot.

Overall though, it is in great shape. Mostly dusty from being in the attic the last few years.

Tomorrow I'll work on cleaning the glue some more. I tried acetone. That seemed to work ok. Tried "Goo Gone". It did nt seem to work as well.

 

[RobertN]

This will start it... This is a picture of the group of Scouts I went on the 250 miler with in 1975. I am second from left, on a customized Schwinn that my Uncle and built. My uncle is wearing the helmet...

The kid all the way to the left, he had a rear derailler come loose. Ate the spokes on his back rim He wound up finishing half the ride on a spare bike.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Hi Robert,

Are the Brakes Universal or Wienmann? I think Universal.
Looks like a French Stronglight crank as well. You are going to have fun rebuilding it. I love the "Nervex" lugs on the frames. They don't make them like that anymore - hand cut and filed lugs.

Post your progress -will be fun.

Lloyd

 

[RobertN]

Yes, you are right. Universal's and Stronglight crank.

Universals are, well, Universal's. Do you know if there is any story behing the Stronglight crankset?

Hi Robert,

Are the Brakes Universal or Wienmann? I think Universal.
Looks like a French Stronglight crank as well. You are going to have fun rebuilding it. I love the "Nervex" lugs on the frames. They don't make them like that anymore - hand cut and filed lugs.

Post your progress -will be fun.

Lloyd

 

[RobertN]

Do you know if there is any story behind the Stronglight crankset?

A little web research indicates that Stronglight really was an innovator, and made very nice cranksets, even now. It seems they are pretty highly regarded, although parts for earlier versions, and tools, are getting scarce...

 

[Lloyd_E]

Yes, Robert, SL was advanced in it's day - long history. I found they flexed a lot compared to Campy and later Suntour/asian stuff - although Dura-Ace was very fine. They made single, track bike, cranks as well as double and triple sets. The British fashioned their TA set after SL.

I have a bunch of old stuff kicking around as well as access to older stuff.
Probably have some old Universal brakes shoes, although I replaced most of my shoes with later high tech stuff. In fact today I was cleaning my workshop and came across a bunch of stuff, BB and axles etc. I love the lug work on your frame. They where hand cut and filed. I knew a frame builder in the past and the more curly-cues on the lug meant more weldable surface area using silver solder = more strength.

Lloyd