Hill Climbing Primer

[square1]

The ground is finally drying up enough to get into & out of the low area surrounding the creek and start bringing out ash logs I've been stacking up down there. There's a pretty steep (25' up over about 75' distance grade through a 50' wide opening, see topo) that will need to be traversed so I'm looking for some tips / answers to questions.



First some info:
Tractor is 25 HP MFWD Ford 1700 w/ 770 FEL (900 lb capacity)
All tires are at least 75%, rears are new.
Rear tires are loaded and have 200 lb center weights each tire
Governor operates as it should
Time to complete job isn't an issue
Logs will be chained in groups or individually to FEL to carry them
Could drag logs using drawbar or 3 pt hitch, but prefer not to.
Heaviest logs will be in the 1,000 pound weight range which I could cut in half if need be.
What else?

Now some questions re: going uphill:
Can the differential lock be engaged while wheels are spinning? I read elsewhere on another brand tractor this was a no-no.
What is the best thing to do if forward progress isn't possible.

My former ride was a 9n, which had a wider stance and lower center of gravity. I mostly looking for advice, whether it seems obvious or not, on getting up and down the hill with and without a load.

 

[PHPaul]

Can the differential lock be engaged while wheels are spinning? I read elsewhere on another brand tractor this was a no-no.

It can be, and often is on my John Deere 750. Not sure about your Ford.

What is the best thing to do if forward progress isn't possible.

Back up the hill, keep the weight down hill. Keep the load as low as possible.

Go straight up, don't try to cross it at an angle. Assuming you have a ROPS, wear your seat belt.

Better yet, park the tractor at the top and winch the logs up to a more level spot.

 

[redman135]

Engage diff lock BEFORE you spin a wheel or you risk breaking teeth off your gears.

 

[Code54]

Can you run a snatch block(s) and pull from the top to bring the log up you without going down?

 

[Gary Fowler]

That sounds like a 30 degree slope. I wouldn't want to be dragging anything that might induce my tractor to turn over backward on that steep of a slope. That slope is already getting pretty hairy just driving the tractor up. Loading into the FEL and carrying them up might be your best solution on this. That way gravity is your friend by putting more weight on the front to keep it down and give you more traction. You may even find that with a log on the front that you can also drag up a small tree at the same time but do be watchful of a hang up that might pull you over back ward.
I think PHpaul's idea is safest. If you don't have a winch, invest in a snatch block if you have something to hook it to at the top

 

[Looking4new]

I would stay at the top of the hill and anchor the tractor to a stout tree up there and winch the logs up.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Can the differential lock be engaged while wheels are spinning? I read elsewhere on another brand tractor this was a no-no.

It can be, and often is on my John Deere 750. Not sure about your Ford.

What is the best thing to do if forward progress isn't possible.

Back up the hill, keep the weight down hill. Keep the load as low as possible.

Go straight up, don't try to cross it at an angle. Assuming you have a ROPS, wear your seat belt.

Better yet, park the tractor at the top and winch the logs up to a more level spot.

That sounds like a 30 degree slope. I wouldn't want to be dragging anything that might induce my tractor to turn over backward on that steep of a slope. That slope is already getting pretty hairy just driving the tractor up. Loading into the FEL and carrying them up might be your best solution on this. That way gravity is your friend by putting more weight on the front to keep it down and give you more traction. You may even find that with a log on the front that you can also drag up a small tree at the same time but do be watchful of a hang up that might pull you over back ward.
I think PHpaul's idea is safest. If you don't have a winch, invest in a snatch block if you have something to hook it to at the top

NO. NO. The slope is 18 degrees and he has 4wd and plans to carry them. Do not back up. Engage diff lock when theres no or only a low/slow difference in wheel rotation. Carry low. Dont work when muddy.
larry

 

[Gordon Gould]

I get about 20 degrees too. Very steep, go straight up and be very careful. Don't try it if the ground conditions are such that you think you might loose traction. Backing down would be tricky. Do not back down with the clutch in. Logs in bucket a good idea as said. Keeps front end down. You will have much better traction going forward up the hill. Hard to know what you mean by spinning. Normally it is fine to engage the dif-lock if the wheels are turning but not slipping. Engage the dif-lock before you start up the steep slope but don't make any hard turns with it engaged. I would start with logs a lot lighter than 1000 lbs and see how it goes.

 

[k0ua]

I measure that as 18.4 degrees, or as would be called in roof pitch as a 4 in 12. That is steep but doable. I too would go up it straight with a load in FEL held very low. Of course if you have the snatchblock, and cable and a flat place to pull and all, that would be a sure bet. But I believe you can do it with what you have.

 

[joshuabardwell]

If you carry them with the FEL, always keep the front of the tractor facing uphill when the log is on the loader. So go up forwards and go down backwards (if you have reason to go down loaded). Facing downhill with a load in the bucket puts a lot of stress on the front axle, and if one has a 2WD tractor, there is a risk of the rear wheels losing traction resulting in a runaway.

If you carry the logs in your FEL, keep them as short as possible and make sure to pick them up balanced--note, I said balanced, not centered. I once had occasion to move an approximately 10' long log with my loader. I took it very slow and kept the log very low. There was a greatly increased risk of going sideways because the log extended so far out to either side.

Honestly, skidding the logs is probably the "right" way to do this, whether you do it with a winch or your tractor. Getting the logs hooked up to the FEL, centered, etc... is going to be a trick, and then you will have a lot of maneuvering to make sure you are approaching a hill dead-on vs. cross-slope. All in all, it'll be a heck of a headache. On top of that, you know you are right at the limit of your FEL's rating, whereas your drawbar/3pt can handle 1000 lbs without breaking a sweat. I would suggest figuring out a way to lift the front end of the log so it isn't digging into the ground, then skid them out with the tractor. Make sure you are always pulling from BELOW the rear axle, to avoid a rollover if the log hangs up from something.

 

[LJH]

I'd go with the snatch block if at all possible, but then, I'm a big sissy. Just be really careful, 'K?

Oh yeah, and get some pictures for us!

 

[SPYDERLK]

The loader will lift a good bit more than its full height capacity. Carrying the load has big advantages with 4wd FEL ... More traction, no work wasted due to friction, very little damage to ground surface. It is the best method if you can go straight up and dont need to lift it much to clear some obstacle. Be sure to use a gear that will pull the hill. An oops need to downshift presents needless risk.

I have carried up slopes as steep as 28 degrees with AG tires and theres no indication of a near limit situation if its good ground. 18 degrees should present no traction problem to any tire as long as its not muddy or marbley. If your brakes are marginal you will need to take special care; beyond the work "package'', factor in the added load of the carry. The brakes on the 12K# Mahindra package become marginal above 20 degrees, so I have some reality on this.
larry

 

[square1]

A good rain yesterday has put conditions back to marginal. That's good, it will give more time to take in the advice here. Thanks, as I said time isn't an issue, I'll add that I don't want my ignorance to become an issue either.

Here's a pic from the Landing across the south end to the other side with a stack of smaller logs in the bottom.



Here's looking from that 1st pile of logs back up to the landing. That's a 36" dia. oak circled right on the edge of the landing.



The entrance into to low area from the top looking down on a 2nd pile of small logs. I'll start with these in small loads and gradually increase the number of logs per load to get a feel for the task.



From the 2nd pile of logs back out the exit opening.



The biggest tree I measured today that will have to come out is 20" DBH x 16' 4" black walnut log @ 700 pounds max. Rechecked the specs on the 770 FEL actually has 1600 lb. break out & 700 lb lift to full height @ pin.

It looks like my equipment is up to the task, so as long as the operator pays attention this should work.

Going to adjust up the brakes before starting just for good measure.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Are the pics labeled correctly? Im having trouble following.
larry

 

[Code54]

Just a thought - after looking at the photos, can you cut the hill down some. Sort of pull some of the top of the hill down and lower the angle. Several spots on our land were similar so I ended up cutting the grade down to make things easier. Or time it made some nice "roads" or easy access points.
Good luck

 

[square1]

Are the pics labeled correctly? Im having trouble following.

I can't figure out how to get rid of the last pic, the tree in the center is the 20" Walnut, but the pic doesn't help show the lay-out of the land.

The entrance to / exit from low area and 2nd log pile in the North East corner are no where near the landing (West side) or the first log pile (South end). Due to the bridge location at the North end (not pictured) it's a long way around to the Landing on the west central side of the valley.

1st pic is looking East South East across the south end of the valley, 2nd pick is looking West out of the bottom at the south end, 3rd is looking SW from the NE corner, 4th is looking NE from the bottom of the valley

Here's a pic from the 1st log pile (South end in valley) out the Entrance / exit point (North East) end of valley.

can you cut the hill down some. Sort of pull some of the top of the hill down and lower the angle.

I had not considered that option, but I will. Biggest concern would be getting equipment heavy enough (I'm thinking even a small dozer probably weights several ton?) to do that work across the old bridge over the creek.

 

[Looking4new]

Can you run your tractor over the bridge? IF yes, then just do the reshaping with the tractor.

 

[Code54]

Can you run your tractor over the bridge? IF yes, then just do the reshaping with the tractor.

Using a box blade (if available) will help a lot if you can drive down the hill and drop the blade at the top. Also you can do a good job with a front bucket with some care. If you can get the tractor over there just give it a shot. Also if the ground is moist (not wet) it seems to make things easier, at least where we live.
Good luck

 

[ovrszd]

I carry heavy loads in my Grapple Bucket in steep timber all the time. Experience yourself slowly, increasing the tasks until you understand the capability of the tractor.


Avoid backing up a hill with a load in the bucket if at all possible for obvious reasons.


It's okay to engage the diff lock when moving. It's not recommended to engage it with one wheel spinning and the other not. You'll learn to think forward and prepare yourself for the task at hand. I only use my diff lock when needed. And that's rare. Actually it will do you little good going straight up a hill.

Avoid dragging the logs if at all possible. You'll really regret that when it comes time to saw them. Dulls the snot outta your chainsaw.

Weather permitting, attack this project. I think you'll be surprised what your tractor can accomplish.

 

[Gordon Gould]

The biggest tree I measured today that will have to come out is 20" DBH x 16' 4" black walnut log @ 700 pounds max. Rechecked the specs on the 770 FEL actually has 1600 lb. break out & 700 lb lift to full height @ pin.

It looks like my equipment is up to the task, so as long as the operator pays attention this should work.

.

I think you might want to recheck the weight of that walnut butt log. I am thinking a 16 foot black walnut log that is green and has an average diameter of 18" will weigh over 1600 lbs. Closer to 1700 probably. Even dry it will be quite a bit over the 700 you are predicting. I have a log weight calculator that I use. It could be wrong but it is usually right on.

Just thought you should check again.