PaulT
Gold Member
looks pretty good. you can accomplish the same thing with the 66 blocks, some spare wire and a punchdown tool (that you would need for this panel also), for much less money, and you would have much more capacity.
Home wiring (non-electrical)
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radman
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In regards to using Cat5e for speaker wire, my installer still plans to use standard speaker wire for tying speakers together. He is not ready to commit to cat5e. He only saw it used for speakers in a demonstration. The downsides still have not been evaluated.
The whole structured wire issue, as stated by others, can get rather pricey. The biggest trouble is figuring out what is needed. Ideally each room should have two separate belden lines (2cat5 and 2RG-6) at different locations with homeruns to the main distribution box. Then the multiple lines for phone and RG-6 need amplifiers etc. What will the future hold? State of the art today, may be laughable in 10 years. Could a great wireless data transmiter method be developed? Wireless is available but probably not yet that good.
I plan to just use single cable runs to most rooms instead of 2 runs.
Also consider running conduit to different areas so that future wiring can be passed easily. This can be done with 2" pvc pipe but I am using a flexible 2" tubing called Carlon. Runs about 2$/foot. Run conduit to the attic, media areas, home theatre, family room etc. wherever you might need future wiring as technology and wiring needs change.
The whole structured wire issue, as stated by others, can get rather pricey. The biggest trouble is figuring out what is needed. Ideally each room should have two separate belden lines (2cat5 and 2RG-6) at different locations with homeruns to the main distribution box. Then the multiple lines for phone and RG-6 need amplifiers etc. What will the future hold? State of the art today, may be laughable in 10 years. Could a great wireless data transmiter method be developed? Wireless is available but probably not yet that good.
I plan to just use single cable runs to most rooms instead of 2 runs.
Also consider running conduit to different areas so that future wiring can be passed easily. This can be done with 2" pvc pipe but I am using a flexible 2" tubing called Carlon. Runs about 2$/foot. Run conduit to the attic, media areas, home theatre, family room etc. wherever you might need future wiring as technology and wiring needs change.
FYI - So far, I have found a wholesale supplier that has a 500' spool of the jacketed multi-line (2 quadshield RG6 & 2 cat5E{http://www.icintracom.com/catalog4/network_wire.htm}) @ $175 (reg:$199). If I were to run dual-each to each room, this may be the way to go. I may even try the cat5E w/speakers. What do you think? Do I really need quadshield RG6?
I thought that this looked like a good package for the money (for my needs). Is this not about the same as 66 block type?/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif
<font color=orange>DESCRIPTION: A long-needed and elegant solution. For non-system single-line and multi-line phones and "KSU-less" systems. Feeds up to four lines to 12 phones, or fewer lines to more phones. Includes molded-in guides to hold wires in place, plus labels to show which wires go where. Actual product is black, not white as in photo. Wires connect with 110 blade in punchdown tool, but some people cheat and use a long-nose pliers and a Swiss Army knife. If you need to distribute four lines to more than 12 jacks, you can connect several of these blocks together. = $39.00
or... PACKAGE DEAL: block with cover & 110 punchdown tool (A110-PKG-TL-CO)$69.00
<font color=orange>DESCRIPTION: A long-needed and elegant solution. For non-system single-line and multi-line phones and "KSU-less" systems. Feeds up to four lines to 12 phones, or fewer lines to more phones. Includes molded-in guides to hold wires in place, plus labels to show which wires go where. Actual product is black, not white as in photo. Wires connect with 110 blade in punchdown tool, but some people cheat and use a long-nose pliers and a Swiss Army knife. If you need to distribute four lines to more than 12 jacks, you can connect several of these blocks together. = $39.00
or... PACKAGE DEAL: block with cover & 110 punchdown tool (A110-PKG-TL-CO)$69.00
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
How about a link to check it out??
Terry
Terry
Terry,
see... http://www.phonegeeks.com/nonphonwirbl.html
Sorry about the confusion. I don't have a decent photo editor on this machine./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
see... http://www.phonegeeks.com/nonphonwirbl.html
Sorry about the confusion. I don't have a decent photo editor on this machine./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
MossRoad
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Finally got some batteries. Here's a pic of the punch down tool that I have. It has interchangeable blades, two different impact settings and can store a spare blade in the handle. Mine is equiped with the '66' blade for looping or terminating. The yellow side is the side towards the cutting blade for quick reference when punching down lots of wire.
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PaulT
Gold Member
It will accomplish the same thing as a 66 block will, but just give you less flexibility. Of course, since all you want to do is connect your phones, you don't really need that flexibility. I think you are the specific target audience they are trying to reach. As they have stated, they are using 110 type terminals, but they get the job done!
radman
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The price looks good. I would run the 2 RG6 with the cat5e. The jacketed multi-line is slightly more expensive but the labor time is decreased. The multi-line also gives some protection to the cat5. Cat5e should not be pulled with greater than 25lbs of force. If pulled too hard the twists can be slightly uncoiled and the data carrying capacity decreases.
Saw a peice of cat6 recently. Still not used much. The standards are being worked out. It is similar to cat5 but the entire wire is also twisted at a certain rate. There is a plastic crossmember within the jacket that helps to maintain the proper twist of the jacket. It appears that with cat6 an entirely new plug in system maybe required.
I am no expert but just learning. At this time I would probably not rec. using cat5 for speaker wire.
All runs should have gentle curves and should not run parallel to any electrical wires. The runs can cross electrical wires at 90 degree angles. Have the data ports slightly away from the electrical outlets. Each run should have a outlet nearby.
Saw a peice of cat6 recently. Still not used much. The standards are being worked out. It is similar to cat5 but the entire wire is also twisted at a certain rate. There is a plastic crossmember within the jacket that helps to maintain the proper twist of the jacket. It appears that with cat6 an entirely new plug in system maybe required.
I am no expert but just learning. At this time I would probably not rec. using cat5 for speaker wire.
All runs should have gentle curves and should not run parallel to any electrical wires. The runs can cross electrical wires at 90 degree angles. Have the data ports slightly away from the electrical outlets. Each run should have a outlet nearby.
butzkeg
Silver Member
If you're in need of data lines in your home, I wouldn't spend the extra $$$ on cat5. There are wireless options that don't cost very much.
Check out linksys.com, they make some fine products. You can buy their wireless hubs for about $150 and PCI cards for $30 for each PC you would want to connect. Plus, you could put them anywhere in your house, not just at the jack.
We've been using them at work for a few months, and they are great products. I believe they are rated for up to a 500m distance indoors.
Check out linksys.com, they make some fine products. You can buy their wireless hubs for about $150 and PCI cards for $30 for each PC you would want to connect. Plus, you could put them anywhere in your house, not just at the jack.
We've been using them at work for a few months, and they are great products. I believe they are rated for up to a 500m distance indoors.
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
The biggest advantage to 110 punchdown blocks, IMHO, over the 66 block is uniformity. Cat5 jacks are all 110 style (haven't seen any 66 style) and you can save roughly $15 to $20 on the cost of another tip for a punchdown tool if you only need the 110. Otherwise there does not seem to be any real functional advantage of one over the other.
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
Just wanted to second the thought of running conduit. Data standards and technical requirements will change, that is a constant and having conduit will allow you to easily add, change, or remove cables later.
Radman mentioned running 2" Carlon. Not familiar with that but used 3/4" standard conduit in my house with home runs back to the basement.
If your budget is limited and you are inclined you can do the conduit runs yourself with a little trial and error. One little note, do NOT have more than 360 degrees of turns in one run as this will make pulling cables harder and will probably require that you use more force then is recommended to pull the cables (degrading the performance characteristics since the twists have been changed).
Spend the money on the conduit and plan your runs and panel in the basement. You can easily add the cabling as you need it later.
Someone mentioned leaving string in the conduits. This is a great idea. If you forget to do this and don't have a fishtape you can easily pull a string later by applying a vacuum to one end of the conduit and introducing a lightweight string to the other end. I've also used this technique for pulling wire through a wall that did not have conduit but takes quite a few tries to get it to work.
Radman mentioned running 2" Carlon. Not familiar with that but used 3/4" standard conduit in my house with home runs back to the basement.
If your budget is limited and you are inclined you can do the conduit runs yourself with a little trial and error. One little note, do NOT have more than 360 degrees of turns in one run as this will make pulling cables harder and will probably require that you use more force then is recommended to pull the cables (degrading the performance characteristics since the twists have been changed).
Spend the money on the conduit and plan your runs and panel in the basement. You can easily add the cabling as you need it later.
Someone mentioned leaving string in the conduits. This is a great idea. If you forget to do this and don't have a fishtape you can easily pull a string later by applying a vacuum to one end of the conduit and introducing a lightweight string to the other end. I've also used this technique for pulling wire through a wall that did not have conduit but takes quite a few tries to get it to work.
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
Just to add to the conduit suggestion.
Use the larger diameter conduit for risers - these are runs that go vertically.
Use the smaller diameter conduit for the runs to the terminating boxes.
For example, run one or two 2 or 2.5 inch conduits between the basement and attic. Two are better so that you can have one for voice/data/AV and the second for electrical. Something that we don't plan for sometimes... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif
From the basement, run to conduit up to the first floor boxes. From the attic, run the conduit down to the boxes. This allows for easy expansion, upgrades, or repairs.
Terry
Use the larger diameter conduit for risers - these are runs that go vertically.
Use the smaller diameter conduit for the runs to the terminating boxes.
For example, run one or two 2 or 2.5 inch conduits between the basement and attic. Two are better so that you can have one for voice/data/AV and the second for electrical. Something that we don't plan for sometimes... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif
From the basement, run to conduit up to the first floor boxes. From the attic, run the conduit down to the boxes. This allows for easy expansion, upgrades, or repairs.
Terry
MossRoad
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I think it is even less than 360. Maybe 270.
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
You are right that 270 degrees is the recommended max. I have a couple 360s in my house and they are challenging. Whenever I pull through the 360 runs I have to use pulling gel (kinda like slimy hair gel). Without the gel it would almost be impossible on the length of run that I have (60 ft).
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
MossRoad/Dverbarg,
When I was invovled in inside/outside plant IT designs we typically would put a pull box in when a run would angle off. Always tried to avoid any angled pulls. Especially inside plant, made the installers job a lot easier and helped with maintenance.
Terry
When I was invovled in inside/outside plant IT designs we typically would put a pull box in when a run would angle off. Always tried to avoid any angled pulls. Especially inside plant, made the installers job a lot easier and helped with maintenance.
Terry
MossRoad
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I agree. Sometimes you see a run that you wonder what the guy with the conduit bender was thinking. Like he was trying to prove just how good he was with that thing. While there is an art to bending conduit, the end product shouldn't look like modern art /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. All those little 22.5 degree and 45 degree bends add up after a while.
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
Pull boxes are great, just not very pretty for a house. Have 3 pull boxes in this house, located in closets. The two runs I have did not do near the pull boxes and thought I could just skip adding a pull box for just one conduit. If it weren't for the pulling gel I would have had to tear into a wall.
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
I've bought 3/4" 90 elbows with removable access lids. You remove a couple screws and you can then pull straight and then feed into the other leg and pull straight again. Cost a little more but it saves time and aggrevation.
Terry
Terry
DVerbarg
Platinum Member
Those elbows with the access panels are great, when they are exposed. Don't help much when they are buried in a wall though. Used a couple of those in the basement ceiling.
