How does an HST compare in pulling power with the same tractor and a gear trans?

[npalen]

Rotary mowing, which is a mainstay of compact tractors, is better done with a hydrostat drive. The engine horsepower can be fully utilized by easily controlling ground speed to match the various cutting conditions. The drawbar horsepower is minimal pulling a rotary mower so very little difference in horsepower requirement between hydro and gear.

 

[Molalla1]

Put the tractor in gear, kill the engine and she won’t move. My tractor will start up that hill in any of the lower 4 gears and you do not slip the clutch. It’s a diesel maybe in a gas tractor you might need to slip it.

Depending on our situations one might be better over the other . . . so we need both.

 

[Molalla1]

Hand throttle and the gear of your choice is all you need on a gear drive

How does that work for you if you have a constant back and forth situation with many turns?

 

[SgtSluggo]

One thing I haven’t read is when you’re working on a slope the gear drive will lock your wheels when you have to stop your tractor along with a parking break. An HST does not hold you on a slope and you have to rely on solely the parking break. Really helps if your parking on the hill and leaving your seat a lot like me having to pick up rocks to clear the land for mowing. Mine a Kubota MX5400DT. It has a Shuttle Shift and I find extremely easy to use. And besides as a person who been using a clutch since 12 years old it’s all second nature. Besides with the HST your losing all the fun. I’m extremely happy with the gear drive and saved $2,000. And with HST users you cant miss the power disadvantage if you never worked with the same tractor with a gear drive. And tractors are loud enough without adding that annoying whine of an HST.

Hey. Welcome to TBN. Only because no one has said it yet, did you realize this thread was 2 years old and many of the post you are quoting are from 2020.

I'm a newbie at running a tractor, but my first was a basic gear drive (ford 1700) and I just upgraded to a HST. Cutting the fields is already 5x easier and I can't imagine me being coordinated enough to run a loader with a gear drive. Each has their advantages otherwise you wouldn't need both continuing to be made.

 

[4570Man]

Hey. Welcome to TBN. Only because no one has said it yet, did you realize this thread was 2 years old and many of the post you are quoting are from 2020.

I'm a newbie at running a tractor, but my first was a basic gear drive (ford 1700) and I just upgraded to a HST. Cutting the fields is already 5x easier and I can't imagine me being coordinated enough to run a loader with a gear drive. Each has their advantages otherwise you wouldn't need both continuing to be made.

The only advantage of a gear drive is it’s cheaper. Unless you live in a country that still uses compact tractors for farming there’s absolutely zero reason besides cost to buy a compact geared trans tractor.

 

[Edward Romero]

Any tractor built in the last 20 years or probably longer has a clutch depress interlock to start. And just because it will start in gear doesn’t mean it’s helping the starter motor. You’re making problems where there aren’t any. If you aren’t smart enough to set the parking brake on a HST then you aren’t smart enough to use a clutch either. Better yet don’t park the tractor on a hill. Park across the hill if it can’t be avoided.

 

[Edward Romero]

Any tractor built in the last 20 years or probably longer has a clutch depress interlock to start. And just because it will start in gear doesn’t mean it’s helping the starter motor. You’re making problems where there aren’t any. If you aren’t smart enough to set the parking brake on a HST then you aren’t smart enough to use a clutch either. Better yet don’t park the tractor on a hill. Park across the hill if it can’t be avoided.

Of course you set the brake on a hill. You starting the engine normally. Not putting any strain on the starter. Your not slipping the clutch when your taking off. The 54 hp tractor needs no throttle to take off. You do the same on a 10 speed two speed axle bus. Let the clutch out and you go. As far as wear and tear I’m a retired Bus Mechanic and I don’t abuse any machine. You park on a hill because you’re on a hill. Your trying to roll big rocks into the bucket. Rocks roll down the hill not sideways. An HST does not hold the wheels from rolling even with engine off and in gear. But people get what they want and it’s well known the HST loses some power. Even the dealer told me that. I got the DT because I like driving the standard transmission and saved $2,000 to boot. I love my gear drive but obviously it’s not for everybody

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Hmm, I guess I should stop using my dozer to push things since apparently HST trans can’t do work. View attachment 763453

IF you can figure out how to put THAT whiner tranny.....er hystat in a tinkertoy tractor, it only then will be a good comparison.

SR

 

[4570Man]

IF you can figure out how to put THAT whiner tranny.....er hystat in a tinkertoy tractor, it only then will be a good comparison.

SR

I guess I should probably swap the 10 liter diesel that weighs as much as the tinker toy tractor while I’m at it.

 

[Edward Romero]

Any tractor built in the last 20 years or probably longer has a clutch depress interlock to start. And just because it will start in gear doesn’t mean it’s helping the starter motor. You’re making problems where there aren’t any. If you aren’t smart enough to set the parking brake on a HST then you aren’t smart enough to use a clutch either. Better yet don’t park the tractor on a hill. Park across the hill if it can’t be avoided.

The Kubota will not start in gear. All systems have to be in neutral. That includes the PTO in the off position. If you want to pay $2,000 extra, lose a little power and listen to the HST whine it’s your choice. And if you can’t drive drive a standard transmission go for the HST.

 

[npalen]

I grew up running gear drive tractors and vehicles. Got so used to them to not even use the clutch when shifting up or down going down the road. I used the accelerator pedal, or footfeed as we called it, to match the engine speed to the current ground speed and simply moved the shift lever to the next higher or lower gear. It was a good thing as most gears were not synchronized and the clutch was of no use.
I find the hydrostat to be the next best thing to sliced bread!

 

[Edward Romero]

For loader work, the HST is the way to go. For snowblowers, I also think the HST is the way to go as the HST can keep the blower's rpm up under varying loads easier than a gear tractor.

Anyway, one of my popular videos discusses HST verses gear transmission.

With my shuttle shift I can change direction in around 2-4 seconds. The HST in 1-2 seconds. Yep I agree the HST is twice as fast.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

IF you can figure out how to put THAT whiner tranny.....er hystat in a tinkertoy tractor, it only then will be a good comparison.

SR

Agreed, a dozer is a completely different animal and should not have even been brought into this conversation

 

[Chevyguy0819]

For loader work, the HST is the way to go. For snowblowers, I also think the HST is the way to go as the HST can keep the blower's rpm up under varying loads easier than a gear tractor.

Anyway, one of my popular videos discusses HST verses gear transmission.

would be good if you actually used a gear shift to compare to. I've cut down trees and been in this same position and found that it is much faster and easier to just cut the tree off and take it out in two pieces.

 

[Egon]

When it comes to the ultimate load being pulled the HST will probably win out. HST will retrain traction better at the start.

 

[ArlyA]

HST transmissions require extra HP to make up for the losses. Quite a bit really but this is not new info. Nonetheless, for some applications they are still the best, like loader work for example.

 

[5030]

all big rigs use a manual transmission so that should tell you what has more pulling power

Not really. Today's big trucks are mostly automatics, not manuals. Hybrid automatics, standard gearbox with a servo actuated (electronic controlled) clutch pack. No clutch pedal at all.

 

[5030]

Well, after owning and operating around 10 Kubota's (I prefer them actually, and that hinges mostly on my dealer relationship), all of them HST's except the last 2. It's a toss up far as I'm concerned. HST's are inherently more complex and HST's all have parasitic power loss just like an automatic transmission in a motor vehicle.

Having said that a gear drive with a hydraulic shuttle for me combines the features of clutchless shifting (there is no clutch) with instant forward and reverse (via the shuttle lever for loader work) with no parasitic power loss and no additional heat created by the HST transmission.

If I had to buy a new tractor (which I don't-won't), it would be a gear drive hydraulic shuttle hands down.

The hydraulic shuttle combines the convenience of an HST with none of the disadvantages like power loss and complexity.

Far as tractive effort is concerned, that all has to do with tractor weight and tire choice as well as front wheel assist.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Only place I've found a hydro to be better, is in a lawnmower. At least then the blades are so loud I don't have to listen to the hydro. lol

Owning both, I don't see the advantage of a hydro in the big picture EXCEPT it's easier for the newbs to learn how to run a tractor. As a person who has been on tractors since I was young, I prefer the positive feel of a gear drive, and that includes loader work. Saying a hydro has more traction than a gear drive is a joke and that includes starting uphill! That's really all about the operator!

My neighbor bought a new deere 40hp compact, wanted a gear drive, but the dealer kept telling him and convinced him that he really wanted a hydro, and that's what they delivered. He didn't like it, but they told him he just needed to get used to it, well a month later he was bitching so much, they found a gear drive and swapped the hydro out.

Then they were so generous, they told him he wouldn't have to PAY the thousand $ difference a gear drive cost!! It was only waaay later that he learned that it was the hydro that cost the 1k more!

Anyway, not everyone thinks a hydro is better, and the big picture is, a hydro cost you more to buy and cost you more to own, IF you actually use your tractor for work like on a farm. That was already tried, and it failed... lol

SR

 

[npalen]

Well, after owning and operating around 10 Kubota's (I prefer them actually, and that hinges mostly on my dealer relationship), all of them HST's except the last 2. It's a toss up far as I'm concerned. HST's are inherently more complex and HST's all have parasitic power loss just like an automatic transmission in a motor vehicle.

Having said that a gear drive with a hydraulic shuttle for me combines the features of clutchless shifting (there is no clutch) with instant forward and reverse (via the shuttle lever for loader work) with no parasitic power loss and no additional heat created by the HST transmission.

If I had to buy a new tractor (which I don't-won't), it would be a gear drive hydraulic shuttle hands down.

The hydraulic shuttle combines the convenience of an HST with none of the disadvantages like power loss and complexity.

Far as tractive effort is concerned, that all has to do with tractor weight and tire choice as well as front wheel assist.

Does the hydraulic shuttle work well when inching such as backing up to an implement for 3PH mounting.