How does an HST compare in pulling power with the same tractor and a gear trans?

[4570Man]

Put the tractor in gear and she won’t move. My tractor will start up that hill in any of the lower 4 gears and you do not slip the clutch. It’s a diesel maybe in a gas tractor you might need to slip it.

Any tractor built in the last 20 years or probably longer has a clutch depress interlock to start. And just because it will start in gear doesn’t mean it’s helping the starter motor. You’re making problems where there aren’t any. If you aren’t smart enough to set the parking brake on a HST then you aren’t smart enough to use a clutch either. Better yet don’t park the tractor on a hill. Park across the hill if it can’t be avoided.

 

[5030]

15 pages of opinions.... Sheesh.

 

[jyoutz]

I just bought the highest HP tractor offered with HST and it works for any ground engagement activities. It pulls my all purpose plow with no effort. If you want HST, just buy a big enough tractor to do the job and don’t worry about a geared machine vs HST.

 

[jyoutz]

One advantage a geared tractor has, and if it has been said, I missed it. On a geared tractor; a certain gear at a certain engine speed gives you a constant ground speed. Not so with a hydro. For weed spraying where constant ground speed control is important, that can be an issue. Especially on hills. Few hydrostatic tractors (if any) have speedometers. I spray with a hydrostatic, so I use a automobile gps to tell me my ground speed. That helps immensely, but I still have to constantly jocky the throttle to maintain a constant speed (even with it's "cruise control"). This is a little off topic cause it has nothing to do with pulling power, but it does have to do with hydro vs gears.

Cruise control fixes that issue with HST.

 

[Edward Romero]

For loader work, the HST is the way to go. For snowblowers, I also think the HST is the way to go as the HST can keep the blower's rpm up under varying loads easier than a gear tractor.

Anyway, one of my popular videos discusses HST verses gear transmission.

Point “A” to point “B” at one speed - geared tractor

Point “A” to point “B”, pick up a load of gravel, back up to point “C”, go to point “D” and start spreading the load between point “D” and “E” then back it up carefully between & around point “F” to park it at point “G” - HST tractor

I did the same thing with my gear drive. Easy. What is so difficult about using a clutch, all big rigs use a manual transmission so that should tell you what has more pulling power

 

[Edward Romero]

I just bought the highest HP tractor offered with HST and it works for any ground engagement activities. It pulls my all purpose plow with no effort. If you want HST, just buy a big enough tractor to do the job and don’t worry about a geared machine vs HST.

Good point. I’ll stick with my gear drive

 

[Edward Romero]

Cruise control fixes that issue with HST.

Cruise control fixes that issue with HST.

Hand throttle and the gear of your choice is all you need on a gear drive

 

[jyoutz]

Hand throttle and the gear of your choice is all you need on a gear drive

So no more difficult than a range selection and and cruise control on HST.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Sure, you give up 10% or so of your HP to an HST transmission. Whether it's worth the sacrifice or not depends on how you use the tractor. I've used both gear and HST for mowing hilly fields with many obstacles, stacking pallets and a lot of FEL earthwork. I'll take the HST every time. For doing field work requiring less shifting, there's nothing wrong with a gear machine.

I never did get the hang of operating the clutch while standing to line up an SSQA FEL attachment. I swap implements frequently and the HST makes it a snap.

For what I do, an HST is a time and labor saver. If it means buying a machine with more HP to compensate, so be it.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

A lot of the work I do is heavy pushing and pulling and a hst just doesn’t cut it. It all depends on what you are doing with your tractor

 

[4570Man]

A lot of the work I do is heavy pushing and pulling and a hst just doesn’t cut it. It all depends on what you are doing with your tractor

Hmm, I guess I should stop using my dozer to push things since apparently HST trans can’t do work.

 

[Edward Romero]

The only thing I have against it is Neil from Messicks deliberately set up that "pull test" to fail.

If you're going to try to measure how much a tractor (any) can "pull" against a stationary object, you don't put it's trans in high range. That is just stupid.

What you're saying Ptsg, makes perfect sense to me, and I agree with you about climbing hills, etc. That's fine. And if that is what the "test" is supposed to show, then they need to do that specific "thing" during the test. But pointing to the HST opening up it's relief valve because some MORON put it in high range to pull against a fixed object as somehow is "proof" that a gear is better than a hydro is just plain silly, and insults the viewer's intelligence.

Hook both tractors up (one at a time) to a wagon pulling a load up a hill if that's what you want to "test". That's fine.

Intentionally tanking a "test" to somehow "prove" something just wastes everyone else's time, and makes the video producer look like an idiot.

Seems to me Messick's must have had a bunch of gear tractors on the lot they were trying to unload that month, and he needed some "help".

If I remember right he put the gear drive also in high range. It still had 50% more pulling power. But people are going to get what they want. I’ve driven my brothers HST and I don’t see why people find it so much easier. I hate that treadle peddle. By the time you reposition your foot you could depress the clutch and shift the shuttle. No more difficult that taking a step. People are basically lazy that’s why most cars are automatic. Myself I love my Kubota MX5400DT. But evidently it’s not for everyone

 

[4570Man]

If I remember right he put the gear drive also in high range. It still had 50% more pulling power. But people are going to get what they want. I’ve driven my brothers HST and I don’t see why people find it so much easier. I hate that treadle peddle. By the time you reposition your foot you could depress the clutch and shift the shuttle. No more difficult that taking a step. People are basically lazy that’s why most cars are automatic. Myself I love my Kubota MX5400DT. But evidently it’s not for everyone

That test was flawed in every way imaginable. In low range traction will be the limiting factor and the pull will be very similar. If you want to prove anything hook a wagon to both tractors and pull them up a hill. In theory the gear tractor should win that one but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the HST make a comparable time due to its ability to match the speed to the load whet the geared is leaving power utilized since you don’t have a gear that perfectly matches the load. A better transmission would minimize that but that Kubota in the test only has a 4 speed transmission with a high/low range gear box behind it.

 

[jyoutz]

A lot of the work I do is heavy pushing and pulling and a hst just doesn’t cut it. It all depends on what you are doing with your tractor

A 60 HP HST would handle your tasks.

 

[sd455dan]

Hmm, I guess I should stop using my dozer to push things since apparently HST trans can’t do work. View attachment 763453

Is that really an HST or is it a power shift with a Torque converter? Just assumed most dozers were power shift? I know the jd 550 was power shift with a Torque converter.

HSTs can definitely pull and do ground engaging tasks Like the Verasatile /Ford bidirectional tractors
Ford 276
3 range hydrostat

 

[4570Man]

Is that really an HST or is it a power shift with a Torque converter? Just assumed most dozers were power shift? I know the jd 550 was power shift with a Torque converter.

HSTs can definitely pull and do ground engaging tasks Like the Verasatile /Ford bidirectional tractors
Ford 276
3 range hydrostat

It’s a power shift with a torque converter. Some of the newer dozers are true HST transmissions with joystick drive control like a skid steer.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

I have used many hst tractors and gear tractors. For what I do a hst does not perform as well as a gear shift. I’m not saying that they can’t do anything I’m just saying that for me a gear shift works better.

 

[Chevyguy0819]

Hmm, I guess I should stop using my dozer to push things since apparently HST trans can’t do work. View attachment 763453

That looks like a very nice dozer. I would love to have that but unfortunately can’t afford one.

 

[m1garand762]

I pull a 2 bottom 14 inch Dearborn plow through some heavy stuff without an issue with an l3901 hat. I I had a kioti in similar horse power gear drive and it choked with the plow. I just plowed 2 acres last week with no issue at all

 

[m1garand762]

I pull a 2 bottom 14 inch Dearborn plow through some heavy stuff without an issue with an l3901 hat. I I had a kioti in similar horse power gear drive and it choked with the plow. I just plowed 2 acres last week with no issue at all