How many "TnT" owners

[DK35vince]

This looks like a very useful addition to my DK35. Now I have to figure out how to install and where to put the valves.

DK35vince - - if you are still reading this post would you mind giving me a little more info about your TnT set up.

Reggie

Reggie,
I am running factory rear remote valves.
My dealer included the first set of remotes with the tractor. I later added a second set.
The remote valves mount on the top of the transmission under the seat panel.
The control levers are the small levers on the right side just in front of the position control and draft control levers.
The top link and tilt cylinders are from CCM with check valves.

 

[628pm]

Since there have been questions about the actual setup in the thread, I just as well add mine. I have a b2620 Kubota with the bh65 backhoe. Can those hydraulic lines for the backhoe be used for the tnt when the backhoe is off? Have to take off the 3pt arms anyway when the backhoe is installed. I took some hydraulic classes 30 years ago, but it is all Greek to me now.

Thanks

 

[3RRL]

Is there going to be a problem with the balls in the hitch binding up with all the tilt that 2 cylinders are going to give you? I am pretty sure that they would on my tractors. Something that is easy to check out before a lot of time and $$$ is spent.

Sorry Brian and Cyril for not responding to the earlier question.
In my case, I checked out the geometry of the 3pt (on my tractor) to make sure I could get all the tilt in either direction without snapping anything off. I used 8" stroke cylinders and can extend one cylinder fully while the other is fully retracted. You will need to do the same for your 3pt.

The concept of using a joystick to control the top and tilt is attractive, for sure!
I used independent controls for each cylinder because, I found, that sometimes you don't want the other side to move up or down when you only want to move one side. For example, if you are cutting a deep gutter with one side down and the other up, you have your 3pt position in a certain position ... probably up a little. As you start to level the blade to feather out the gutter cut, you will find the blade coming out of the gutter cut, above the ground. You would need to use the 3pt position control to place the blade at the desired level, back on the ground again. Not to say this is a bad thing, because I have to do something similar when doing a severe tilt.

But I like the ability to move only one side when I want to.
In other words, say I'm dragging with the blade level, and I have set the position control for this cut. Then want to cut deeper on one side only. I lower that side link and that side cuts deeper. In that case, I don't have to adjust the position control again. The other side does not come up ... it stays where it was. With the single control, one side always comes up when the other is moving down. So you would need to lower the position control at the same time as you start to tilt the blade. And being that our tractors usually allow only one valve to work at a time, because the flow so small compared to commercial vehicles, trying to work the two valves at the same time might become difficult. Anyway, since I don't have my two side links plumbed like that, I really don't know. What I do know, however, is I can move my side links separately or simultaneously by feathering since they are controlled by the same valve.

One thing is certain though, regardless of which way it's plumbed, having two cylinders ... one retracted fully and one extended fully, you get a heck of a lot more tilt. And it is done in an instant instead of having to get off the tractor to manually screw up or down the adjustable mechanical side link. It would be great if jenkinsph would make this mod to his tractor. Then he could tell us how it really works out in real world use and how he likes it. Like I said, it sounds like a very attractive idea.

 

[kruszert]

Vince,

Thanks for responding. I am still a little confused - - new to setting up hydraulic systems and have only done this once for a stump grinder. I have the same set up that I see on your tractor. I have a backhoe so the four hydraulic fittings are in the back and the two small control levers are there. I thought the control levers just determined which hydraulic coupling was pressure and return on the two sets of fittings in the rear. This then requires a second valve to extend/retract each cylinder - - two valves for your set up. Are these the remote valves you added on the top of the transmission under the seat panel? I couldn't see them in the picture.

Also - - what are the sizes of the cylinders you used for top and side. I have to admit that I would like to shamelessly steal your design . You said that the cylinders were "with check valves" - not sure I understand this either.

Thanks for the help,
Reggie

 

[jenkinsph]

3RRL;

I am going to add a cylinder and give it a shot, so I will post some pics.

Read your post about the advantages to separate controls and agree with you to a point. The problem I have with your description about the opposite side not rising up when one side goes down is that the implements are far wider than the hitch arms. So even if one side's hitch arm is fixed then lowering the opposite hitch arm will force the implement up on the other side with the pivot point being the stationary arm. In other words using an 8 ft wide blade or landplane with a Cat 1 hitch means that your pivot point would be about 3 ft from one side and 5 ft from the other side. If you tilt the right side down 12 inches at the edge then the left side will still rise up about 7 to 8 inches.

If you tilt the same implement with the single circuit arrangement then the pivot is moved to center and both sides would move 12 inches. I think you would need to adjust the rockshaft in either scenario to mainain a fine grade.

The joystick is intuitve though push to the left= tilt to left, pull joystick back tilt implement back, push stick all the way forward to float the implement and top link. So far this works well, I just want full tilt in both directions primarily for my rearblade.

 

[DK35vince]

Vince,

Thanks for responding. I am still a little confused - - new to setting up hydraulic systems and have only done this once for a stump grinder. I have the same set up that I see on your tractor. I have a backhoe so the four hydraulic fittings are in the back and the two small control levers are there. I thought the control levers just determined which hydraulic coupling was pressure and return on the two sets of fittings in the rear. This then requires a second valve to extend/retract each cylinder - - two valves for your set up. Are these the remote valves you added on the top of the transmission under the seat panel? I couldn't see them in the picture.

Also - - what are the sizes of the cylinders you used for top and side. I have to admit that I would like to shamelessly steal your design . You said that the cylinders were "with check valves" - not sure I understand this either.

Thanks for the help,
Reggie

It sounds like you already have all the same remotes installed that I have and that is all that you need . All you need is the cylinders and hoses and plug them in.
You can extend and retract the cylinders with the remote valves you already have.
Example-I plug my top link into the 2 quick couplers on the far left (the hydraulic fittings on the back of my tractor). If I push one of the small control levers forward my top link will extend, pull it back and my top link will retract. No extra valves are needed.
My tilt cylinder plugs into the other 2 quick couplers and works the same way.
I can't remember the size of my cylinders, I will check tomorrow.

 

[kruszert]

Vince,

I went out and checked my tractor and - - well I guess I needed to do some homework before asking more questions. I do not have that second valve and hydraulic set that you installed . I looked in my Bailey catalogue and found that they had cylinders already set up for the top link. I do still need to get the size of the side lift cylinder. I think I will buy a set of valves to actuate the cylinders.

I am hoping that with this setup I will be able to angle my back blade & box blade to make a sort of side cut on a dirt/gravel road.

Reggie

 

[DK35vince]

The 2nd remote valve from Kioti will mount right on the side of the first one and makes a nice clean, functional setup.
You can run 1 cylinder with the setup you have now. Either a top link or a tilt cylinder.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

.
The top link and tilt cylinders are from CCM with check valves.

Vince, with your 3pt set up like it is in the picture, does your tilt cylinder tilt your blade down to the left and right? From the pic, it looks like it only will only tilt the right side down. Can you please confirm this.

 

[kruszert]

Thanks Vince,

Your set up is a lot cleaner than a different valve and sounds reasonably easy to install. I will check with Kioti for the price of second remote valve.

I need to get this designed and ready for spring.

Reggie

 

[DK35vince]

Vince, with your 3pt set up like it is in the picture, does your tilt cylinder tilt your blade down to the left and right? From the pic, it looks like it only will only tilt the right side down. Can you please confirm this.

My hydraulic tilt cylinder will tilt down the right side.
I have a manual adjustable link on the left side if I need it. But so far I haven't really needed it.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

My hydraulic tilt cylinder will tilt down the right side.
I have a manual adjustable link on the left side if I need it. But so far I haven't really needed it.

Vince, thanks for responding, I was just wondering. It seems like there are quite a few guys that have side links that work as yours does instead of having the ram at the 1/2 way point when level.

Your place sure does look nice, how often do you have to mow?

 

[jenkinsph]

Vince, thanks for responding, I was just wondering. It seems like there are quite a few guys that have side links that work as yours does instead of having the ram at the 1/2 way point when level.

Your place sure does look nice, how often do you have to mow?

Brian, that is how mine is set up most of the time, allows me to cut a ditch at a sharper angle. You can see why I wan't to use two cylinders for tilt to allow tilting either side as pictured above.

 

[DK35vince]

Vince, thanks for responding, I was just wondering. It seems like there are quite a few guys that have side links that work as yours does instead of having the ram at the 1/2 way point when level.

Brian,
I tried having my ram at the half way point so I could tilt both ways.
I just didn't like it there, seemed like I lost to much lift hight in my 3 point. Also felt I had to quess where level was when resetting the ram back to center.

Your place sure does look nice, how often do you have to mow?

Thanks.
I mow around 7 acres of lawn usually once a week in the summer. And 8 acres of field around 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[killdozerd11]

My hydraulic tilt cylinder will tilt down the right side.
I have a manual adjustable link on the left side if I need it. But so far I haven't really needed it.

You guy's know that for most people this second tilt cylinder is NOT needed
the reason we set one up on our rig is we did construction and landscape work
all the time.

And you don't use it all the time.(the left one) our MF65 only had the right
cylinder and it's an unneeded expense

 

[Tailrotor]

Gentlemen

All this talk about top & tilt and 2 cylinders or 3. I have it for my L45 with quick disconnects and if I am working a piece of land that requires that much of a tilt I simply put the cylinder on the other side and work the ground that way. The added expense for the 3rd cylinder is up to you but myself I don't see a need for it. When you can easily move it from side to side for greater deflection. Just my 2 cents.

 

[3RRL]

3RRL;

I am going to add a cylinder and give it a shot, so I will post some pics.

Read your post about the advantages to separate controls and agree with you to a point. The problem I have with your description about the opposite side not rising up when one side goes down is that the implements are far wider than the hitch arms. So even if one side's hitch arm is fixed then lowering the opposite hitch arm will force the implement up on the other side with the pivot point being the stationary arm. In other words using an 8 ft wide blade or landplane with a Cat 1 hitch means that your pivot point would be about 3 ft from one side and 5 ft from the other side. If you tilt the right side down 12 inches at the edge then the left side will still rise up about 7 to 8 inches.

If you tilt the same implement with the single circuit arrangement then the pivot is moved to center and both sides would move 12 inches. I think you would need to adjust the rockshaft in either scenario to mainain a fine grade.

The joystick is intuitve though push to the left= tilt to left, pull joystick back tilt implement back, push stick all the way forward to float the implement and top link. So far this works well, I just want full tilt in both directions primarily for my rearblade.

Hi Steve,
Basically, you are correct about my set up.
Like I said, I too, have similar "pivoting" when cutting a deep gutter and rotating back to level ... just not as much as a set up where the pivot point is in the center.
And I should have been more specific about grading with my set up. What I meant was, when grading say a new road or trail and I want to cut one side more than the other, I only move that side down a little at a time ... like maybe 1" or 2" inches at a time. I do this repeatedly until I obtain the desired pitch to the road. At that time, I probably have the position control set so that the blade "floats" a little to follow the contour of the path I am grading. In that case, there is enough "play" in the linkage (at least mine) where making such a minor adjustment (down on one side only) where it does not affect the other side.
That is not to say it doesn't happen, but it's imperceivable.

My tractor drags a Cat II 7 foot boxblade, and my comments are based on actual results and experience from what I've done with mine. I've seen this phenomena every time I do this. In fact, you may find a similar experience once you get your setup going. I find it refreshing that there is an alternative method of plumbing vs the separate controls as on my set up... especially the joystick for controlling. Perhaps where the pivoting occurs will become a moot point after all? I can't wait to hear your results.
Rob-

 

[jenkinsph]

Rob,
You are right too, a Cat 2 is about 16" off center so a little less variation. I use a 7' boxblade with hydraulic scarifiers which use my third set of outlets. That is another reason to use one circuit for two cylinders.

 

[Tailrotor]

Here is some information on using dual hydraulic side links and some other good question.



Frequently Asked Questions
1. What is a double-piloted check valve? A double-piloted check valve locks a cylinder in place and prevents any movement due to by-pass (up too 600 PSI) from the valve and will also give you a level of safety if a hose was to fail.

2. Why does CCM sell hydraulic toplinks with check valves? Safety first is the main reason. OSHA and the EU require piloted check valves as a safety on agricultural and industrial equipment when an object is lifted with a hydraulic cylinder and has no mechanical safety catch.

3. What size cylinder bore do I need on a hydraulic toplink? The working hydraulic press of most CAT 1 tractors ranges between 2200 3000 PSI. If you have a 2 hydraulic cylinder you will have the direct straight force of 5000-7000 LBS. If you use larger hydraulic cylinders then you risk exerting forces beyond the normal designed capacity of the tractor. CAT 1 tractors usually are not designed to lift more than 3000 Lbs with their 3-point lift. We do have larger hydraulic cylinders for CAT 2 applications.

4. I do not see a cylinder with the exact same stroke as my OEM toplink. You need to get a cylinder that will match the range of motion you normally use. If your OEM toplink is 18-32 likely an 18-26.5 hydraulic toplink will cover most of your applications. Most operations require use only of the first 60% of the OEM toplink.

5. Do I need both a hydraulic toplink & hydraulic sidelink? NO Customers with both a hydraulic toplink and a hydraulic sidelink adjust only the toplink 80% of the time and if they adjust the side link do so only once. The sidelink is beneficial to commercial landscapers that use a sidelink to adjust a boxblade for the desired contour.

6. Can I use 2 hydraulic sidelinks? We do not recommend use of 2 hydraulic sidelinks. If you are doing this so you can exert down pressure it is not a good idea to do this. Most 3-point systems are not designed for the added down pressure force and will prematurely fail and cause unsafe situations with the added down force.

7. Where can I find other operators using hydraulic toplinks and Top and Tilt systems? http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ Use the search feature and you will find many people using various systems.
Please call or contact us with any questions you might have.
Carter & Crater Machinery, Inc 1233 Carroll Creek Road Johnson City, TN 37601 423-282-6969 sales@ccmachinery.

 

[Willl]

I mow around 7 acres of lawn usually once a week in the summer.

Other than looking cool, why ?