How much vehicle to tow Deere 410C Backhoe

[Diamondpilot]

I wonder if anyone who thinks these 1-ton trucks can't handle big loads have every even towed with a 1-ton.

Why does everyone think they can't stop big loads? Obviously you people don't realize that the TRAILER does the braking and not the TRUCK. With the trailer properly setup, the trailer brakes actually help slow the truck as well before the truck brakes even connect. When I have my dump trailer or camper hooked up, I can actually stop sooner and easier. It's easier on the truck brakes since they are being helped by the trailer brakes. Trust me, when the brakes hook up on a tri-axle goose neck, it will haul that trailer and truck to a stop immediately. The truck doesn't even need brakes with proper trailer brakes.
Today's 1-ton trucks would run circles around older class 5/6 trucks and YES they can get used commercially day in/day out. Plus it's a TON cheaper to maintain. Ever price out some 19.5 or 22.5 truck tires? How about a brake job or even an oil change?

This is the smartest, best post to date. I agree with everything you said here. Its going to be a good day. GO BUTLER!

Chris

 

[High Compression]

I currently use single axle tractors that I took the king plates off and installed flat beds. I pull a 19,000 lb and 28,000 excavators with no problem pulling or more importantly, stopping. You can pick up these tractors for $10k-$20k all day long. I also recommend an air brake trailer. They work a lot better and are way cheaper to maintain. Don't be afraid of a rig with 400,000-500,000 mi on it either. Example, I found a 97' Ford Aeromax with an M11 Cummins, 10spd and with only 103,000 mi on it for $14,000.00. It has been a great truck.

 

[RickB]

I wonder if anyone who thinks these 1-ton trucks can't handle big loads have every even towed with a 1-ton.

Why does everyone think they can't stop big loads? Obviously you people don't realize that the TRAILER does the braking and not the TRUCK. With the trailer properly setup, the trailer brakes actually help slow the truck as well before the truck brakes even connect. When I have my dump trailer or camper hooked up, I can actually stop sooner and easier. It's easier on the truck brakes since they are being helped by the trailer brakes. Trust me, when the brakes hook up on a tri-axle goose neck, it will haul that trailer and truck to a stop immediately. The truck doesn't even need brakes with proper trailer brakes.
Today's 1-ton trucks would run circles around older class 5/6 trucks and YES they can get used commercially day in/day out. Plus it's a TON cheaper to maintain. Ever price out some 19.5 or 22.5 truck tires? How about a brake job or even an oil change?

You are not qualified to speculate on other members' experiences, especialy mine.

Clearly you have more faith in a set of electric brakes performing over the long term than some of the rest of us do.
I do notice that the proponents of 350/450 size trucks hauling 20,000lbs and up on a daily basis are Flatlanders with the possible exception of one guy from NH.

 

[SixHoeBob]

Electric brakes work very well in the sales brochures, real life is a different story.
When something fails in an electric brake system, the result is one or more wheels have no braking action. When something fails in air brakes, the brakes are applied. Air brakes are spring applied, air released. Of course there are exceptions, but this has been my experience.

 

[tcartwri]

I would not pull that load with an electric brake trailer of any rating. I pull a 12,000lb tractor around all summer, and we just got rid of our triple axle float with e-brakes. Not only did the brakes have to be rebuilt every year, but we snapped an axle flange off just before it was retired. We now have a tandem axle, 20 ton, air brake tag along, and it is 10 times the trailer.

I don't know how some of this equipment gets certified for road worthiness.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I wonder if anyone who thinks these 1-ton trucks can't handle big loads have every even towed with a 1-ton.

Why does everyone think they can't stop big loads? Obviously you people don't realize that the TRAILER does the braking and not the TRUCK. With the trailer properly setup, the trailer brakes actually help slow the truck as well before the truck brakes even connect. When I have my dump trailer or camper hooked up, I can actually stop sooner and easier. It's easier on the truck brakes since they are being helped by the trailer brakes. Trust me, when the brakes hook up on a tri-axle goose neck, it will haul that trailer and truck to a stop immediately. The truck doesn't even need brakes with proper trailer brakes.
Today's 1-ton trucks would run circles around older class 5/6 trucks and YES they can get used commercially day in/day out. Plus it's a TON cheaper to maintain. Ever price out some 19.5 or 22.5 truck tires? How about a brake job or even an oil change?

I have towed a fair bit with a new 1-ton (2010 dodge 3500 cab chassis, 6.7L 6spd) and while I agree they are leaps and bounds above the 1-ton trucks of 20 years ago, they still do not compare to a 2-ton truck.

They are great for a 10, 12, 15K trailer, but once you start getting towards 20K you can tell its a real load. I've used the aforementioned dodge to haul our 2550 JD + disc mower a few times, gross trailer weight about 19K. Even with all that torque you still slowed down to about 35mph on the big hills, not to mention had a hard time starting out at a steep stoplight due to a lack of deep gearing (and very little low end torque until the turbo spools up). And heaven forbid the electric trailer brake plug comes undone on one of the 7 mile long 9% grades we have around here. BTDT, very nearly wrecked, not fun.

Compare that to our old '75 C60. It is pretty slow and a gas hog, but it hauls that much without issue. It too slows down to about 20mph on the hills, but with a deep first gear and an 8.85:1 axle ratio on the low side it's no trouble to get a load moving. And, while it may have drum brakes all around they can easily stop 20K WITHOUT any trailer brakes (although I wouldn't make a habit of it.) For long hauls I would want something more modern and comfortable, but for short hauls there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Maintenance costs? With a 350 gas motor and SM465 trans you can get parts at almost any auto parts store in the country. Brakes can still be done for a reasonable cost using parts that most NAPA's still stock. 9.00-20 or 10.00-20 tires while not common these days are available and much cheaper than 19.5 or 22.5 tires. Sure it gets about 6mpg, but you can buy awful lot of fuel for the $50K sticker on a new truck.

Having used lots of different truck and trailer combinations, no one will ever convince me that a 1-ton pickup is a better tow vehicle than a 2-ton truck when you get into the 20K range.

 

[RickB]

I tend to agree with DMace. If I was starting a company from the ground up and I wasn't looking to haul anything heavier than a TLB like a JD 410, NH LB110, Case 580 or Cat 416, I would purchase a Ford F450 or F550 and have it set up to tow the load. I'd purchase a nice gooseneck trailer to go with it and call it a day. It may cost more up front for a newer F450 class truck than it than a used medium duty like an F600 or the like, but the maintenance and upkeep will be significantly less on the F450 class. I've even noticed that National Grid, the local utility is buying more and more F450 dump trucks because for a lot of their smaller jobs they don't need to haul and temporarily store large amounts of dirt and an F450 will do the job for less money up front and much less upkeep and maintenance than a medium duty chassis 6 wheel dump truck. Just because years ago the technology wasn't there to do a job with less truck, does not mean that we can't get by with less truck nowadays and do so safely and efficiently.

If you were starting a business with a TLB and a gooseneck trailer to haul it, you either would not have a dump truck, or you would have two trucks doing the work of one.

A guy doing backhoe work with no dumptruck, or a dumptruck at home sitting in the yard. That's a lousy business model for most one-man excavating contractors.

You guys need to go out and price a brake job on an F450/550 and compare that to the cost of drums and shoes for the average truck with S-cam air brakes. Then cost both out per mile of average service life. Then come back and talk about maintenence costs.

 

[Lt CHEG]

If you were starting a business with a TLB and a gooseneck trailer to haul it, you either would not have a dump truck, or you would have two trucks doing the work of one.

A guy doing backhoe work with no dumptruck, or a dumptruck at home sitting in the yard. That's a lousy business model for most one-man excavating contractors.

You guys need to go out and price a brake job on an F450/550 and compare that to the cost of drums and shoes for the average truck with S-cam air brakes. Then cost both out per mile of average service life. Then come back and talk about maintenence costs.

I was thinking that I'd need at least two trucks. I'd certainly want a dump truck, but I'd also want a pickup or utility truck of some sort to carry tools and crew members. My thinking is that I'd probably need tools for just about every job and a dump truck isn't really the best tool box, but there would be some jobs where the TLB was needed but not the dump truck. For example if I was doing some excavating where I was just putting the spoils to the side of the hole and then backfilling with the same spoils. I suppose that there's also the argument that I could hire out the dump truck work and have materials hauled in, when necessary without using my own dump but still using my TLB. I guess my line of thinking is that if I was to open a business it would most likely not be just excavation and would be more geared towards utility work and storm water management, based upon my previous work experience. In that case I'd need more tools than I'd want to haul in a dump truck. I'd also want to own a mini excavator and I wouldn't want to have to bring a dump truck out all the time that I wanted to haul a mini ex. You do make some good points though.

 

[GE222]

Have you considered a used single axle short dump box municipal dump truck? It will pull a trailer far better than any one ton job, and most likely be more economical that than a tandem axle dump.

 

[Dmace]

If you were starting a business with a TLB and a gooseneck trailer to haul it, you either would not have a dump truck, or you would have two trucks doing the work of one.

You can haul a goose neck with a dump truck, obviously you can not haul materials at the same time but we have a couple of dump trucks with a flip-up door in the bed, removable ball and the hitch is attached right on the frame rails.