How much weight can I legally haul in Virginia without CDL.

[Diamondpilot]

Here is my take on it. I haul boats as a part time gig. I use my 2006 F350 for the bigger ones. It's GVWR is 11,500. The biggest boat I haul has a trailer with a 24,000# GVWR.

As far as everyone is concerned it's my stuff, no CDL required because they are registered in my name. Many require over width permit. Some are as wide as 13'. I get the permit and pilot cars and never once have I been asked if I have a CDL. I have to supply insurance, registration info, ect. I haul these bigger boats through Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky.

Been doing it this way for 20 years. Larger stuff for the last 13.

Chris

 

[rswyan]

The unladen weight is 6500#, but I think it is tagged as commercial. They didnt even ask me if I wanted comm or non-comm. And didnt realize til I got home and installed the plates. Renewal is up in a few months. Comm is cheaper, only ~$45. Going non-comm @ 6500# puts me $91.

Well, by the time you figure in the cost of obtaining and keeping a CDL, commercial tags will not be cheaper.

Dunno what the actual cost of the CDL is currently, but the cost of DOT-mandated medical exam has risen as a consequence of the stricter regulation of those who provide them. You can probably realistically figure $100 to $150 quid for that ... best case would be every two years ... but could be as little as as every year or even 6 months if someone decides you have a medical issue (which may or may not be an accurate assessment)

I could tell ya a little story about just how ugly (and expensive) that can get ...

I have done tons of reading at the cites you already posted. I still have yet to read anything that excludes a person from those weight restrictions if you are non-commercial.

The very image you posted below would seem to exclude them, based on what it says in the accompanying sidebar (not the flowchart itself - which presumes one is driving commercially)

The sidebar says it's licensing information for those driving commercially.

No need to complicate the simple.

If I understand YOU correctly,

1. You are saying that if truck and trailer are registered non-comm, and I am hauling for personal use, I am fine with no CDL.

Correct.

2. But if registered comm, or hauling commercially, I need the CDL?

Correct.

Registration indicates intended use - if you register it commercial then that's your declaration that your use is commercial.

3. And if I had a trailer with a GVWR under 13.8k (12.2+13.8=26k) I wouldnt need a CDL regardless?

Assuming that you're driving commercially, and given the above, then yes ... you wouldn't need a CDL.

If only I could be certain.

I suggest you keep on reading - the actual regs and not "stories" - until you are ...

Ohio's CDL flow chart looks the same as the one posted earlier.
View attachment 422963

Does the vehicle or combination of vehicles have a mfg weight rating over 26k? 12.2+24k=36.2k.............Yes
Is the vehicle a combination vehicle towing a unit with a GWVR over 10k.......YES

CDL A required

I see no exemptions for non-commercial use?

Well, that's possibly because the actual context of the whole thing is: ... drivers who are driving commercially ...

So, it's not entirely surprising that you wouldn't see any exemptions ... since there aren't any (for drivers who are driving commercially)

And there are a TON of other threads on the net all across the US Asking these same questions. A 1-ton with a dual tandem or triple axle GN require a CDL. And the general consensus is YES.

Yeah, well ... a fairly substantial number of the general population aren't necessarily the brightest bulbs in the chandelier ... as well as a fairly substantial number who are also functionally illiterate. Some portion of that includes members of the law enforcement community as well.

The regs say what they say.

The document you yourself have provided says, in it's sidebar, that "There is a federal requirement for that each state has minimum standards for the licensing of commercial drivers."

That seems pretty clear and unambiguous to me.

And lots of people telling stories of being pulled over towing their old tractor from one farm to the next, or hauling cattle, etc.

As someone who has driven commercially for a living for a number of years and spent a good deal of time in truckstops, I am quite familiar with the phenomena of "lots of people telling stories" ...

Here's the bottom line:

You can do whatever you want ... get a CDL or not ... but just be aware that if you do obtain a CDL you are voluntarily placing yourself under a much higher degree of government regulation than you be under if you didn't have one.

And some of those regulations you may not even be aware of ... yet ...

So the ramifications and ultimate consequences of your action might not be readily apparent.

Is that really what you want to do ?

For me personally, the less interaction and involvement I have with any form of government, I tend to view as a good thing.

 

[LD1]

I dont want to get a CDL if I dont need one. Exactly the reasons you mention. But up til now, I was under the impression that I needed one.

Even as you mention, members of law enforcement dont always know. Even if I dont need a CDL, and I am in the right, that is no guarantee against problems with a LEO who doesnt know, that could end up costing alot to get cleared up.

Many other threads on this site and others about people with 1-tons and GN trailers towing privatly getting stopped and ticketed, fined, harassed for not having CDL, logs, medical cards, etc. Hard to imagine they are all making it up. Even if they are legal and its the LEO's who dont know, I dont want to be one of those.

I have even called several jurisdictions in which I travel. From State highway partol to county sherrifs offices. No clear answer. Some say I am fine, others suggest I "should" have a CDL but not certain, and others say definite that I need a CDL. So when the ones paroling and pulling people over have no idea, how the **** am I supposed to know. And even If I am right in what I am doing, how do you convince an officer that who is certain I am wrong?

I have yet to be pulled over, so have never had to cross that bridge. I still maintain that having good looking equipment and properly tied down is the most important factor in not being targeted.

And not to change the subject, but another issue I have with this whole thing.....

If I do not need a CDL to tow privately, why would I need one to do so commercially? Does towing for hire all of the sudden make me more unsafe that I need special training, license, log books, etc? I can buy a large dumptruck to haul gravel for my own personal drive, but If I start hauling for someone else to make some $$$, All of the sudden I need special training and license? Nothing changed about the equipment or driver or load?

 

[rswyan]

I dont want to get a CDL if I dont need one. Exactly the reasons you mention. But up til now, I was under the impression that I needed one.

I've been pestered by a friend of mine who has a Class C CDL and drives a van to get a CDL for many years now.

The only thing a Class C would get me is the ability to drive for a few more carriers that (sometimes) haul Hazmat (or just require a CDL for driving a van on general principles) ... that and it would subject me to a whole lot more regulation.

Don't want no part of it ... but he keeps trying ...

After all: misery loves company ...

Even as you mention, members of law enforcement dont always know. Even if I dont need a CDL, and I am in the right, that is no guarantee against problems with a LEO who doesnt know, that could end up costing alot to get cleared up.

Yup ...

Here's another one: Let's say you have a some potential medical issue with obtaining your DOT medical card, and the examiner refers you to your regular doctor or tells you you need to see a specialist.

How informed do you think they will actually be on the DOT regs concerning the matter ?

And if uninformed, how interested do you think they will be in becoming informed ?

Many other threads on this site and others about people with 1-tons and GN trailers towing privatly getting stopped and ticketed, fined, harassed for not having CDL, logs, medical cards, etc. Hard to imagine they are all making it up. Even if they are legal and its the LEO's who dont know, I dont want to be one of those.

Don't blame ya ... but Life is full of potential hazards.

I have even called several jurisdictions in which I travel. From State highway partol to county sherrifs offices. No clear answer. Some say I am fine, others suggest I "should" have a CDL but not certain, and others say definite that I need a CDL.

Reminds me of when I called the local OHP post about the actual GVW exceeding the manufacturer's GVWR (aka overloading the vehicle) to settle an argument with someone.

Dude at OHP told me that as long as I didn't exceed the GVWR that I declared on the registration when I plated it, they wouldn't care ...

Oh really ?

So ... I can take my van - which has a GVWR of 8,550 lbs - and load it up to the point where it's laden weight was, say 12,000 lbs, and you guys would have absolutely no problem with it ?

Yup sez he ...

You can pretty much figure that if I was involved in an accident that resulted in a fatality while driving an overloaded vehicle as above, they might reserve the right to change their minds.

So when the ones paroling and pulling people over have no idea, how the **** am I supposed to know. And even If I am right in what I am doing, how do you convince an officer that who is certain I am wrong?

Make him cite the actual law or regulation that applies.

And then show him your copy of the one that does.

I have yet to be pulled over, so have never had to cross that bridge. I still maintain that having good looking equipment and properly tied down is the most important factor in not being targeted.

I'd say that probably plays into it ... although some may be looking for that USDOT number to be displayed on your rig.

That in itself begs another question:

How far do you wanna take it ?

The next logical step - after obtaining a type of license you actually aren't required to have for what you are doing - would be to get your own Motor Carrier Authority ...

Why not just go all in and do it up right ?

And not to change the subject, but another issue I have with this whole thing.....

If I do not need a CDL to tow privately, why would I need one to do so commercially? Does towing for hire all of the sudden make me more unsafe that I need special training, license, log books, etc? I can buy a large dumptruck to haul gravel for my own personal drive, but If I start hauling for someone else to make some $$$, All of the sudden I need special training and license? Nothing changed about the equipment or driver or load?

Yup ... it's the consequence of a few bad apples - commercial drivers who did irresponsible things, like taking speed and going coast to coast non-stop or running crazy hours - that screwed the pooch for the rest of us.

That, and a general public who demands that government "do something" to solve a problem.

It's not entirely uncommon for the solution to be far worse than the actual problem itself.

 

[bcp]

If I do not need a CDL to tow privately, why would I need one to do so commercially?

I think it is that the state says you are using their roads to make money and they want their share.

Bruce

 

[rswyan]

I think it is that the state says you are using their roads to make money and they want their share.

The issue that you raise, is exactly the issue I ran into when I called the local OHP post about overloading a vehicle beyond the GVWR declared at the time of registration.

The trooper I talked to said it in no uncertain terms.

 

[JIGBUILDER]

I started towing commercially in the late '60s with mostly one ton DRW trucks and GN/pintle/bumper pull/5th wheel trailers. Started with a chauffeurs then to a commercial chauffeurs and finally grand fathered into a class A CDL when the feds made the class mandatory.
I stopped towing commercially but kept the CDL current for several years until it became a hassle. State ran a lot of DL/insurance/safety sticker roadside check points.
I may be in my 3500 DRW truck pulling one of my flatdeck trailers with some type of equipment. They would always question why the CDL and why isn't the truck or trailer registered commercially or didn't have any DOT door numbers or always something.
I let the CDL go some years ago. In this state all you need is a regular class D license regardless of vehicle and trailer size and no plates/tonnage/ladin/GVW or any number to register at.

 

[LD1]

Jigbuilder, mind sharing what "state" that might be?

 

[WM75Guy]

In Texas you need the appropriate class of license (CDL or non-CDL) based on the GVWR of the towing and towed vehicle. Texas is slightly different from the federal CDL definitions for non-CDL in that the trailer can be 20,000# if it has farm tags. As a firefighter I had a Class A non-CDL. My parents had to have a Class B non-CDL for their 30,000# GVWR motor home. The non-CDL is the regular operator's license that has Class A or B instead of Class C in the space for class.

This is from the Texas DPS website.

Classification

Description

Class A

Authorizes an individual to drive a vehicle or combination of vehicles:
1.Not described under a Class B or Class C driver license
2.With a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds including vehicles in Class B or Class C

Class B

Authorizes an individual to drive:
1.Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more and any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 pounds or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds
2.A bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more including the driver
3.Any vehicle included in Class C

Class C

Authorizes an individual to drive any single vehicle:
1.Or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B
2.With a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds
3.Designed to transport 23 or less passengers including the driver; vehicles rated as 16-23 passengers including the driver require a Class C CDL unless exempt

Class M

Authorizes an individual to drive a motorcycle or moped.



Classified Driver License

Class A, B, C, and M driver licenses are issued to individuals who are exempt from obtaining a commercial driver license (CDL) or who are not required to obtain a CDL.

NOTE: Individuals who are exempt from obtaining a CDL may still be required to obtain a Class A or Class B driver license if the type of vehicle driven meets the definition of a commercial motor vehicle.

Individuals who are exempt from obtaining a CDL but may need a Class A or Class B driver license are:
Operators of recreational vehicles driven for personal use
Some farmers who meet certain criteria
Operators of cotton-seed modules or cotton burrs
A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle operator
Military vehicle operators
Vehicles owned, leased or controlled by an air carrier

 

[Copperhead]

One thing that come out of this discussion, we are awash in regulations that no one can figure out. I have been a commercial class 8 driver for over 3 decades, and these discussions crop up all the time even in the commercial community. For the average person to try and figure it all out, that is darn near impossible. And even expect LEO's to be on top of all of it along with all the other things they have to know, that is a pipe dream. And we haven't even gotten into hours of service log book territory here in this thread which adds yet another layer or two of confusion for many folks. And the hue and cry that goes out across the land.... more regulation! It is the world we live in.

See something like this in our future? You can eat peanut butter, but only if you have not been constipated in the last 30 days, if you are not over 10% body mass index, and as long as you consume no more than 2 tablespoons of peanut butter in a 12 hr period, with a 30 minute break between those two tablespoons. But if you have consumed PB in the last 12 hours, you must wait 48 hrs before you are allowed to consume peanut butter again. And you have to have a medical certification that you can properly metabolize PB and it must be renewed every two years. And you must have a certificate that allows you to purchase PB, with ratings for how much PB you can buy at one time. More than one jar, and you have to have a doubles / triples endorsement on your certificate. If you are eating anything with the peanut butter, like bread, you must determine type of bread and you must have a materials endorsement that allows you to combine the PB with that type of bread. And of course, if you are using your cell phone, even with a hands free headset, while consuming PB, you will incur and fine of $2500 and have your certificate to purchase PB taken away. Meanwhile, the government will keep a score on you regarding any violations of the regulations and it will be made available to all retail stores and restaurants. And they will even provide a smart phone app so that any establishment can look up your score and determine if they will sell you PB. A point violation of 7 points will be assessed if you use a plastic knife to spread the PB instead of a metal knife. And the first year of the violation, the points will be tripled to 21 pts. drop to 14 pts the second year, 7 pts the third year, and then drop off. At a total of 80 pts cumulative, and you will be put in alert status with the Food and Drug Administration and be forced to provide evidence of corrective action you are taking to avoid future violations.