How to back up a pivoting axle trailer

[Eebbee]

First, stop using the 3 pt drawbar for pulling trailers, there is mo down pressure on the 3ph other than the tongue weight. It is a good way to get into trouble. Use the fixed drawbar attached to the under belly of the transaxle—this can not raise up.
Second find an opened area and get some flags—the ones on a thin wire. Then practice practice practice. Then practice some more. You must think in a different way from backing up a trailer when backing up a wagon.

Hi,
Not using the 3-point...using the draw bar. I was asking if I should use the 3-point arms to keep the tongue perpendicular to the tractor, making the wagon pivot the only pivoting point.

 

[MossRoad]

Hi,
Not using the 3-point...using the draw bar. I was asking if I should use the 3-point arms to keep the tongue perpendicular to the tractor, making the wagon pivot the only pivoting point.

Ahhh, like locking the tow bar so it can't pivot at the draw bar pin?

 

[Eebbee]

Hello Eebbee. Look on youtube: Truck and trailer reversing in a straight line training video.
Ignore the right hand drive. the principals shown are what matter.
NOTE the small(1/2 turn of steering wheel) corrections. Also, NOTE how he lined up FIRST, then started to reverse.
This driver is very good, he makes it look way easier than it is.
Make sure you are straight BEFORE you start reversing, setup very important.

If your tractor does not have mirrors, then think about getting a pair. Set them wide so you can see the sides of the load. If you are reversing into dark sheds, I reccomend you mount a spot light above the mirror to illuminate the mirrors feild of vision like the trucks do.
Lastly, your wagon has a drawbar that is a similar length as the wheel-base. This is a difficult combination to reverse as the body can out turn the drawbar. Best combination is for the wheel-base to be 1.5(or greater) X length of wagon drawbar See post 31 to see a good reversing wagon. The wheel-base is approx 2 X the drawbar length.
Be patient, as it takes practice.
Good Luck

Thank you
Very useful information

 

[Eebbee]

Ahhh, like locking the tow bar so it can't pivot at the draw bar pin?

Yes Exactly

 

[aircommuter]

It’s just like a transfer truck TRAILER. Just as those guys who do it everyday, a good driver can invert the trailer so the truck and trailer are side by side. That’s for areas without enough turn around space.

 

[Gord Baker]

On the farm we used to back a Wagon (what you have) full of hay or sheaves of wheat sometimes up a Barn Bridge. Do NOT mess with the tongue. It is an Operator problem. Get a big area to play in and move s l o w l y. Thing about what happens when you angle the tongue. If using a pickup, turn the steering wheel quickly. Playing with a kids wagon may help understand the physics of it.

 

[copierguy710]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

Just steer like you are going forward, kind of an acquired taste…

 

[QRTRHRS]

I set myself up for a backup by my approach so that my wagon and tow vehicle are straight as I can get it prior to reversing. For me, it's easier to use a tow vehicle with mirrors than the drawbar on a tractor where I have to twist my body around to see where I am going. Like others have suggested, I learned to clamp a drawbar onto my loader bucket.

This thread reminded me about back when I was pulling doubles. There are times when you have to "manhandle" a dolly or "jiffster" by hand. With dual wheels, they are heavy. Then one day there was one with super singles that I thought that I would try. It moved so fast it liked to run me over. I thought wow, this is great. That was until I went to back up. Not being able to see the dolly tires made backing just that much more of a challenge.

 

[kent5757]

When I was a young lad, the annual 4H fair had a competition for backing a wagon into a spot. It was always a very long afternoon.

 

[Kevin Underwood]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

I always had much better luck pushing the trailer with the front of the tractor either with a tab welded to the brush guard or a ball mount. Providing fast response with steering axle to steering axle. Much more maneuverable.

 

[Shady oak]

Same way I got to Carnegie Hall! Lol

 

[broadsword6]

Not sure if this is useful and I may be repeating advice already offered but I do it by pointing the wagon tongue in the direction I want the wagon to go. Hard to do with a truck if you cant see it, but pretty easy with a tractor. As many have said here, get lined up first though. Its hard to correct poor alignment and the tendency is to over-correct and get into ever increasing steering corrections that end up with an embarrassing jack-knife. But if you "steer the tongue" not the wagon, it tends to go OK. Hard to do at first.

 

[a1Sabrina97]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

Backing them any distance can be difficult. On the farm we had several hay wagons, forage wagons, and gravity bins which operated the same way. If you can situate yourself so the wagon is perpendicular to where you wish to back into this will allow you to back in an arch (curve). Your first move when starting to reverse is to establish the curve. Maintaining a curve while backing is easier with a wagon gear than straight line. Just like learning to back up a trailer, nothing replaces repetition. Given time you can be reversing a wagon without hesitation.

 

[klm]

D=Fsquared D is degree of difficulty, F is feet, after about four feet forget it.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

It's a wagon, not a trailer. (who cares, right?)

It's not a trailer. It's a wagon. Two different things.

I find it more than a little ironic when what's actually a trailer, supporting all of its own weight, can't be called trailer.

Then semi trailers, by far the most common kind of trailer, is called trailer.

As someone pointed out earlier, words do matter. There are (pull/full) trailers that carry all the weight, and there are semi trailers. Those don't support all of the weight and that's why they're classified as semi trailers.

 

[TGD]

A wagon with a steer axle is different from a regular bumper pull trailer or a gooseneck, 5th wheel etc. which uses the tractor, truck, car for a steer axle. The steer axle is always under the front of the wagon. Tightening the pivot at the drawbar will just bend or break something so leave the connection able to pivot. If it is a swinging drawbar there may be a hole in the bar that lines up with a hole in the swing plate for a hitch pin to lock the two together. Pin the drawbar in the center hole so the drawbar stays straight and in one place. If there is no hole it will just be a bit more jangly to do because of the additional slop but can be done with practice once you know what the assembly will do in a given situation.

Don't use a 3 point drawbar. It has no down force and the weight of the trailer and load when backing a heavy wagon or pulling up a hill can cause the 3 point to suddenly rise up and damage something, lose control, and possibly flip the tractor over.

In the photo as taken and with the tongue remaining in the position it is in, and if backing up the wagon, the rear will go left and the angle of the front wheels will continue to get greater pushing the front of the trailer to the right pivoting the trailer on the rear left wheel until things are jackknifed to the tractor.

To correct this angle from where things are in the photo and to back the wagon straight, the hitch point on the tongue (tractor rear) needs to go right which pushes the tongue of the wagon to the right. This straightens the front wheels. Once the wheels are straight then the trailer will back more or less straight depending upon the slop in the assembly. Watch the rear of the wagon and where you wish it to end up. Use small adjustments to point the tractor rear to the right or left which will make the wagon rear go right or left. If you have overcorrected where everything looks like a pretzel then pull forward to straighten everything out and start again.

Think of is as a car going down the interstate at 70mph. When changing lanes you make very small adjustments to the steering wheel to change lanes and change back. When backing any wagon you want to make very small adjustments and keep the steering point as straight under the center as possible.

Many of the material handlers at work who drive the cart trains for line stock can backup a series of stock carts which are all basically wagons with steer axles all connected with ring hitches. The newer people have trouble backing just one cart. So it takes practice. On farms things are usually arranged so the amount of backing up in minimized.

 

[KennyG]

I understand the concern about using the 3 point hitch for towing but it's really not a big deal with a wagon as opposed to a trailer since there is no force either up or down on the wagon tongue.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Many of the material handlers at work who drive the cart trains for line stock can backup a series of stock carts which are all basically wagons with steer axles all connected with ring hitches. The newer people have trouble backing just one cart.

Yep, I can back one trailer (not semi trailer) up alright, and since I have two, naturally I had to try hooking them together. Predictably, a complete failure.

I envy those who can back up tractor trailer doubles around corners. Saw it done as a young kid once, and it's a memory forever. On a good day I can back up doubles in a somewhat straight line for up to 50 feet.

Anyway, with regular (semi) trailers I'm far better off using that mirrors than trying to look behind me. So by not using the mirrors when backing up a (full/pull) trailer I'm one step ahead.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I understand the concern about using the 3 point hitch for towing but it's really not a big deal with a wagon as opposed to a trailer since there is no force either up or down on the wagon tongue.

As long as the tractor end is lower than the trailer end of the draw bar.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

It is a unique artform. Plan to always back as straight as possible and that will help. Turning corners in reverse is a delicate operation.
The only one rule has already been said: the wagon goes in the direction the front wheels are pointed.
When I worked on a farm as a teenager and as a young adult, I got pretty good, but it took a LOT of work.