How to back up a pivoting axle trailer

[aircommuter]

Like someone said it is similar to pushing an airplane. I put my airplane in and out of my hangar for years and since the tail hangs out past the rear (main) wheels you just turn in the direction you want the tail to go. Just go slow and stay ahead of it.

 

[Baldbigears]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

With a fixed axle trailer if you grab the bottom of the steering wheel the trailer goes the direction of the steering wheel. With your trailer the opposite is true. Grab the top of the wheel and the direction you turn the wheel the trailer should go.

AS someone stated it takes practice and a lot of room.

 

[MossRoad]

Yes Exactly

So think about that for a bit...

If you fix the tow bar so that it cannot pivot at the pin on the tracktor drawbar, the drawbar isn't going to be able to steer the steering linkage on the wagon anything but straight. The front wagon wheels don't pivot independently of the tow bar. The tow bar steers the front wagon wheels with linkage.

Make sense?

 

[prairiegirl]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

It's been a while and I was never very good at it, but the main thing was to not even try to turn them, but just straighten them out forward and back up again.
Tying them up is heresy

 

[Ztill]

I just got an utility trailer with two axles. The front axle pivots.
The tongue is A-Frame. It looks just like the photo attached.
While I am normally pretty good at backing up trailers -without pivoting axles- I find this one is just about impossible to back up. I don't know if it's because the tongue is too short or if it is the double pivot point that screws me up.

So for those of you whom own one of these how do you back them up?
Do I need to lengthen the tongue?DO I need to rig it so I can tie the 3-points lower arms to the tongue or do I need to fit something to lock the tongue at the 0 degree position when backing up?

Thanks in advance.


View attachment 849621

Hi, So steering axle trailers take exactly the opposite action to steer verses a two wheel trailer. You have to think entirely differently. The easiest way to do this is to think you are holding the hitch in your hand. Then steer it with the hitch of the tractor. It’s hard because you first have to be fully competent with backing up a two wheel trailer. Part of the secret is to travel slowly and start fully straight, then as you start backwards make only small changes in the hitch tongue position.
Backing four wheel trailers quick separates the patient from the impatient.

 

[airbiscuit]

It's already been said a lot of different ways. With a trailer, if you want it to go left, you turn the tractor right (the opposite way). With a wagon, if you want it to go left, you turn the tractor left (the same way). You have to go slow, a little goes a long way, and you almost have to start counter correcting before the turn is done.

 

[Brendanspapa]

I don't own one currently, but have used plenty of them. That's a wagon, BTW, not a trailer. Anyway, yes, lengthening the tongue can help by making steering adjustments have a less dramatic effect. Similar to backing a long trailer, the longer the distance from hitch to axle, the easier it is to control. Think of the pivot point of the tongue of your wagon the same way you think of the center point of the axle/axles on a trailer. It's the same thing as backing two trailers at the same time. You'll break something for sure if you try to lock the tongue. As has been pointed out, all of this is easier if you have a hitch on the front of your tractor, rather than the rear. Really though, this isn't something you can learn from reading. You have to just learn by experience.

One key thing is that you must be able to see the tongue. That really is the key to understanding what the response of the rear wheels is going to be. I have done this many times in the past, and have always watched the tongue so as to understand what the wagon is going to do.

 

[Yamezz]

It's a dog trailer.

Dog Trailer

 

[sadman13]

This works like a semi-trucker hauling doubles, you now have two pivot points. Normally with a trailer the pivot point is where the trailer is attached to the hitch and when you back up you turn the steering wheel in the opposite direction of where you want to turn, in this case you will want to turn the wheel in the direction of the turn since the first pivot point will turn the opposite direction and the second will turn in the direction wanted. You should still try to pull forward enough to back in a straight line and if it starts to veer off too much, stop and pull forward and straighten out and as others have said practice, practice, practice.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

This works like a semi-trucker hauling doubles, you now have two pivot points.

Well, there are actually three when pulling doubles with an OTR tractor.

There's the 5th wheel on the tractor, then the pintle on the first trailer, and then the 5th wheel on the con gear.

 

[Hoot Owl]

When I was a young lad, the annual 4H fair had a competition for backing a wagon into a spot. It was always a very long afternoon.

In High school I was to busey on the farm to take part in 4H or FFA. One Saturday FFA was having a farmers competition of all things farming. Some of my friends signed me up with out me knowing until my name was announced during Friday morning announcements. I made a point to show up. We had to back a wagon in to a space 2' wider than the wagon. Guess who got first place. They made me do it twice because it was dead center.
We had to back the silage wagons in between the silo's to unload after building the new feedlot.
We had 1' on either side of the wagon's and they were extra long wagons with dual axles in the rear.

 

[BlueKnife]

One key thing is that you must be able to see the tongue. That really is the key to understanding what the response of the rear wheels is going to be. I have done this many times in the past, and have always watched the tongue so as to understand what the wagon is going to do.

That's helpful, of course, especially while learning. It's not entirely necessary though. I've backed up wagons with a pickup. Watching the front wheels tells you the same thing that the tongue does, it's just not as dramatic.

 

[BlueKnife]

I find it more than a little ironic when what's actually a trailer, supporting all of its own weight, can't be called trailer.

Then semi trailers, by far the most common kind of trailer, is called trailer.

As someone pointed out earlier, words do matter. There are (pull/full) trailers that carry all the weight, and there are semi trailers. Those don't support all of the weight and that's why they're classified as semi trailers.

Semi trailers can't be disconnected from the tow vehicle and hold up all of their weight on the wheels alone. They also don't have a tongue that steers a front axle. Those are the defining characteristics of a wagon.

 

[lpakiz]

Another tip-FIRST get the rear of the wagon pointed where you want the rear to end up. Aim the rear of the wagon, you could say. It's easier with an empty wagon and even easier yet if the deck boards run parallel to the centerline of the wagon. Then you can see where the wagon is pointed, as well as see how far from center the wagon tongue is deviated.
Then, watch the tongue and how far it deviates from straight. If the tongue is straight with the centerline of the wagon, it will back straight and in the direction you have the rear end pointed.
NOW, as you back up, move the wagon tongue left or right a bit with the tractor drawbar. As the tongue moves sideways, watch when it gets to a position that moves the front wheels the amount you need to steer the rear end. You will first move the tongue sideways, then you'll need to follow it with the tractor, so the tongue angle stays constant as you travel in reverse.
If you you don't follow the tongue, it will rapidly deviate into a jackknife. Then you need to pull up, straighten the tongue, then back up again.
i like the suggestion to practice with a child's wagon. Same principles with both.
Takes LOTS of practice. Lots of patience, but it certainly can be learned.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

So what

Semi trailers can't be disconnected from the tow vehicle and hold up all of their weight on the wheels alone. They also don't have a tongue that steers a front axle. Those are the defining characteristics of a wagon.

So what I have hooked up behind the first trailer is a wagon?

I always thought it was a second semi trailer with a con gear, making it a full/pull trailer.

But yes, what the majority of people call trailers are actually semi trailers. And don't get me going on "semi trucks". Something that doesn't exist in real life.

 

[BlueKnife]

So what

So what I have hooked up behind the first trailer is a wagon?

I always thought it was a second semi trailer with a con gear, making it a full/pull trailer.

But yes, what the majority of people call trailers are actually semi trailers. And don't get me going on "semi trucks". Something that doesn't exist in real life.View attachment 850663

No. The front "axle" (con gear) isn't part of the rear trailer any more than the truck is part of the first trailer. But I see where the confusion could arise.

 

[Captain Patrick]

I am more faithful than Bruce. I think I can help you. AFTER YOU PRACTICE SOME! Now... Shake the fog out of your mind. All of it.
This is harder to read than do.
I think you are looking at the wrong spot of the trailer for this axle combination.

I am going to build a picture.
I bale hay with a bale basket(a trailer, call it (A)) behind a baler(another trailer, call it (B)) Have the picture? At the back is trailer (A), pulled by trailer (B). The pivot of the wagon front axle is the hitch point, of trailer (A) to trailer (B).

Under the cargo box of your wagon, you have a trailer (A), behind trailer (B). Can you see this? (B) is attached to the power source.
i.e. A Tractor, or Truck, Team of horses. What ever you are going to use.

Now. Imagine the cargo box is see through. Like glass, on top of the trailers. Look underneath, Where you have trailer A, behind trailer B. Yes I am being redundant. Stick with me. You can do this. Look at where you want the rear trailer (A), to go.

Now, what do you have to do, to move to the front of trailer (A) to point it where you are parking it?. At this point, think what you must do to trailer (B), to force (A) into position? Sketch it out if you need to. Manipulate the hitch point between the power source and the hitch on trailer (B) to make trailer(A) go where you want it. Use the trailer in the middle to move the rear trailer. Use your power source to make it all happen.

Best of luck. Watch the back. Use the front to put it where you want the back.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

How it was explained to me: With just a trailer on a ball or hook, the trailer goes the direction you move the bottom of the steering wheel. Add another pivot, it goes the direction you move the top of the wheel. Every pivot go bottom to top, top to bottom, etc.

I was told this by the truck boss when I worked at UPS. He could back triples (three trailers and two dollies), and hit the 9-inch wide positioning stripe on the unloading bay. And, I once watched him push 19-dollies from the trailer yard, around the building to the mechanics shop.

Other than repositioning his hands, and lots of years of practice, he couldn’t explain how he did it.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

He could back triples (three trailers and two dollies), and hit the 9-inch wide positioning stripe on the unloading bay.

Dang! I couldn't even back this up more than maybe eight feet.

 

[BubbaG65]

Piece of cake - wherever you are backing it up to, rig up a pulley system. Drop the hitch, Simply drive forward pulling the rope while the other end of the rope sucks the wagon into place.