How to paint a tractor...

[Soundguy]

Good point on the Darwin awards, I'll be watching the local paper and let you know when he nominates himself. Actually, the guy said he used to paint tractors, but his insurance company shut him down. What's that old line about God watching over fools and little children? Looks like his insurance company probably saved his life.

The tractor is in decent shape, there's a place where the fiberglass front hood is busted, and a crease in the top cover over the engine, and normal wear spots in the tractor like where you put your hand behind the gas cap to get off the tractor. I just like to take care of my stuff, I certainly worked hard enough to be able to afford it, so I want it to reflect my "work ethic" and taking care of my stuff. Thanks!

Those small parts.. if they bother you, can be addressed seperately of the entire unit.

For someone learning painting. have 3 pieces of sheetmetal hanging on a line is a whole lot easier than prepping an entire tractor for painting.

1, that fiberglass nose can be removed and repaired.. or replaced... Fiberglass is EZ to fix... even if it needs a wire frame inside to prop the resin cloth on till it cures.. then sand smooth and contour the fb.. use glaze putty or other filler to get minor surface imperfections. then sand entire nose piece to uniformity... Prime it.. follow directions on whatever paint you use... some require wetsanding.. or scuffing afterwards.. or some have windoes of recoat time.

Then paint it.

same with that dash .. it is seperate of the 2 hood front sections.. though much more labor intensive to remove.. however.. with a roll of tape and a few big sheets of mask paper.. you CAN pain it in place if you take your time.. just prep, prime, paint.

Either of the hood sections are EZ to remove...

If the crease is repairable do so.. IE.. lay the crease down on a wood plant and work it with a dent hammer fromthe other side and a rubbing block if needed... Use a glaze or filler putty if needed to finish off imperfections.. sand, prime, paint..

Douing small tasks like a hood panel or a front nose won't be nearly as bad as the entire job.

Might be a fun learning experience.. and at worst.. you have 3 parts that have marginal paint... which.. sounds like they are no worse off than before... etc.

Even if ya don't paint he hood and dash... do go ahead and fix the nose.. that will be the easiest part.. Even if yuo rattle can prime and paint it afterwards.. it will dress up the entire machine by not having a crushed piece on it.

Still.. as the others have said... she looks like a worker not a parade queen. My worker 7610 has a few warts that i havn't addressed... Like a crumpled left fender courtesy of the previous owner. I just added paint to prevent rust. On a later date.. when the rest of the tractor is ready for paint.. I'll fix the fender.. sheet metal is even easier to repair than fiberglass..

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

While not 'rare'.. the Allis model 'G' are not super common either.

They are a good cultivating tractor with a 62 ci engine.. similar in hp range as a cub.. or massey harris pony.

I see about 3 for sale per year.

There was a guy that lived north of me that restored them and repowered them with isuzu diesel engines for years.. but he got out of the business. Had I had more $$.. I could have picked up quite a few of his unrestored carcasses when he started to sell out.

It's a neat little tractor.. still 6v.. etc. Starts easy.. sips fuel. I use mine solely for parade / show work. She stay washed and waxed and garaged. I drive her about 1x per month down around our neighborhood to keep her limbered up and to get her up to temperature for a while to prevent moisture from settling in the oil sumps.. etc..

were do i get one of these?!?!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Be fair now...You are taking this statement somewhat out of context. I did not state that only those 'alergic' to it would / could be affected. If you are especially sensitive to the ISO compounds .. you will have a much more sever reaction.

And yes.. go to the ytsite.. this exact same info is discussed over there.

Also... according to the info from some of the hardners.. fresh air painting is acceptable under certain conditions.. It's in black and white.. you can hit valspar's MSDS to verify this..

Also.. As i indicated in my 1st post, I too believe his OEM paint is still sufficient and should not be re-coated yet.

Soundguy

Fresh air painting is "acceptable" to some, but there's little control over environment, so conditions aren't consistant throughout the process. Even the slightest amount of wind drift would carry dangerous iso's to where ever the wind wants to take it. Not the safest way to paint. Sorta like rolling dice IMHO. Are those MSDS from Valspar CURRENT? I've seen older MSDS sheets and/or paint cans with that sort of info, but I do believe that fact has changed in the past few years. Here's the latest MSDS info I have in hand for Valspar hardener;

"Caution- Contains alphatic polysocyanate isophorone diisocyanate, naptha, and n-butyl acetate. Individuals with lung or breathing problems or prior reaction to isocyanates must not be exposed to any vapor or mist. All others, do not breath vapor or spray mist. Wear an appropriate, properly fitted respirator (NOISH approved) during application. Use a positive pressure airline resperator. (NIOSH approved) and follow respirator manufacturers recommendations for respirator use. Do not get in eyes, on skin or clothing. Wash thoroughly after handling. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame. Vapor may cause flash fire. Notice; Test reports have linked use and exposure of isocyanates to permenant lung damage. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational exposure of solvents to permenant brain and nervous system damage. Misuse by deliberate concentration or inhaling the contents may be fatal. For industrial use only, use under compliance with EPA and OSHA."

This MSDS sheet is dated Jan 1, 2006.

Same info on latest can of hardener I have. Less restrictive warning on older cans I still have on the shelf.

Google "Isocyanate exposure" for a less "sugar coated" version.

Those more susceptable to ico's are in more danger, but NO ONE is immune to their effects. Any exposure will have effects, however slight they MIGHT be. Sometimes they won't be immediately noticable or even detectable at all, but they are DANGEROUS. Effects don't always show up right away. It was 2 years after exposure, and during a bout with the flu where my first symptoms occured. Even a less severe reaction is still not something anyone would want. Exposure is avoidable. Not taking all the precautions available is like Russian Roulette. Why take the chance? Since effects aren't reversable, there's no good reason to wait until after a person detects symptoms to take neccisary precautions.

Yep, There's no way even the very best painter can replicate conditions of an original pant job. That would require complete disassembly, stripping to bare metal, removing ANY rust, completely cleaning everything, and painting in almost sterile conditions. That said, why anyone would repaint a tractor in that good of condition is beyond me.

 

[Spiveyman]

That 2nd coat of paint you put on will help delay the rust of those 2 implements.

The finish didn't turn out perfect due to the metal surface and old paint imperfections. Same would be true on the tractor.. Like I said.. most of the 'finish' look comes not fromt he paint.. but from the labor involved during surface prep.

As i said at the bottom of my 1st post.. your 6610II work clothes are fine.. My 7610s has very similar ( oem ) paint..

Soundguy

I think I pretty much proved your point about the most important thing being the prep work. I just painted a boom pole and put much more time in up front scraping the crap off, sanding, and even priming this time. That made a really big difference, and I'm using a brush. I can only imaginge how much better it would look with a spray gun.

Thanks for the compliments on my tractor's current state. I'll have to say I really like your 7610 as well. Your's seems to be in better shape, but I'm not dogging on mine. I know I'm crazy to want it to look new, and I take to heart all the comments about the OEM paint. I think I'll take your advice in your next post and try to fix the body damage. Then perhaps I'll take some smaller pieces that are in worse shape and try to touch them up as stated. I'll take full caution with the breathing thing just in case.

I don't have a dent hammer, and don't even know what a rubbing block is, but I can probably figure it out. Like you said, it will be fun. Which by the way is half the point for those who still question my sanity. I get as much enjoyment from taking care of my stuff as I do from using it. I know what you mean about her not being a parade queen, but she's mine and I want her to look as good as I can get her to look.

I was going to work on it a bit tonight, but someone broke into our house this afternoon, ransacked the place, stole stuff and did lots of damage. I had to replace the back doors and frame. Had to use some of my tractor project money on the repairs and we haven't even figured everything that's missing. Once things settle back down I'll post some b/a pics of anything on the tractor I can manage to fix.

Funny thing is this whole evening I kept thinking about the coyote thread in the Country Living forum and wanting to use some of those ideas on these burglars.

 

[Soundguy]

I'll have to find my MSDS.. i think i got it saved at home PC. Don't recall date off hand. but very well could be older than yours. I havn't done any painting in 07 at all..

I agree on the environmental conditions... no real control.. IE.. you wouldn't want to try to make a show paint ob outside.. A spec of dust is all it takes.. or your neighbor putting some silicone tire spray liberally on his tires upwind from you.

I'm no show painter.. i paint my machines solely for preservation.. the fact that a few of them came out real nice had some luck involved.

I will say that I did take lotsa time with my best job.. the Allis G Complete disassembly is easy on a small machine.. though i did have to buff out and re shoot the rear hood cowling due to an imperfection.. Might not have done so .. except the rest of the tractor had turned out so good.. i couldn't leave that 'wart' on there.

That's the main reason i havn't repainte dmy 7610s. OEM paint is still holding.. and even the few areas it is worn a bit.. it's still intact and primer is good.... No use in recoating good paint on a worker that see's brush and shrubs al the time.. at least not while there's still intact paint on her anyway.

Soundguy

Fresh air painting is "acceptable" to some, but there's little control over environment, so conditions aren't consistant throughout the process. Even the slightest amount of wind drift would carry dangerous iso's to where ever the wind wants to take it. Not the safest way to paint. Sorta like rolling dice IMHO. Are those MSDS from Valspar CURRENT? I've seen older MSDS sheets and/or paint cans with that sort of info, but I do believe that fact has changed in the past few years. Here's the latest MSDS info I have in hand for Valspar hardener;

"Caution- Contains alphatic polysocyanate isophorone diisocyanate, naptha, and n-butyl acetate. Individuals with lung or breathing problems or prior reaction to isocyanates must not be exposed to any vapor or mist. All others, do not breath vapor or spray mist. Wear an appropriate, properly fitted respirator (NOISH approved) during application. Use a positive pressure airline resperator. (NIOSH approved) and follow respirator manufacturers recommendations for respirator use. Do not get in eyes, on skin or clothing. Wash thoroughly after handling. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame. Vapor may cause flash fire. Notice; Test reports have linked use and exposure of isocyanates to permenant lung damage. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational exposure of solvents to permenant brain and nervous system damage. Misuse by deliberate concentration or inhaling the contents may be fatal. For industrial use only, use under compliance with EPA and OSHA."

This MSDS sheet is dated Jan 1, 2006.

Same info on latest can of hardener I have. Less restrictive warning on older cans I still have on the shelf.

Google "Isocyanate exposure" for a less "sugar coated" version.

Those more susceptable to ico's are in more danger, but NO ONE is immune to their effects. Any exposure will have effects, however slight they MIGHT be. Sometimes they won't be immediately noticable or even detectable at all, but they are DANGEROUS. Effects don't always show up right away. It was 2 years after exposure, and during a bout with the flu where my first symptoms occured. Even a less severe reaction is still not something anyone would want. Exposure is avoidable. Not taking all the precautions available is like Russian Roulette. Why take the chance? Since effects aren't reversable, there's no good reason to wait until after a person detects symptoms to take neccisary precautions.

Yep, There's no way even the very best painter can replicate conditions of an original pant job. That would require complete disassembly, stripping to bare metal, removing ANY rust, completely cleaning everything, and painting in almost sterile conditions. That said, why anyone would repaint a tractor in that good of condition is beyond me.

 

[Soundguy]

I think I pretty much proved your point about the most important thing being the prep work. I just painted a boom pole and put much more time in up front scraping the crap off, sanding, and even priming this time. That made a really big difference, and I'm using a brush. I can only imaginge how much better it would look with a spray gun. :

Yep.. no pain.. no gain... You are getting the feel for it now.

Thanks for the compliments on my tractor's current state. I'll have to say I really like your 7610 as well. Your's seems to be in better shape, but I'm not dogging on mine. I know I'm crazy to want it to look new, and I take to heart all the comments about the OEM paint. I think I'll take your advice in your next post and try to fix the body damage. Then perhaps I'll take some smaller pieces that are in worse shape and try to touch them up as stated. I'll take full caution with the breathing thing just in case. :

I'd bet our 2 tractors are are in closer condition than is apaprrent. My chassie paint may be a tad better.. but your tires are much better than mine. I've got a dented left fender that is probably as attractive as your cracked fiberglas nose piece.. etc.

That series of tractor.. the 5xxx, 66xx and 7xxx were some of the best ones ford/NH/CNH ever turned out in my opinion.

Doint it in small pieces gives you a feel for it.. and worst case is yuo can't really 'ruin' anything past what you can sand off in a few hours and repaint.. etc..

I don't have a dent hammer, and don't even know what a rubbing block is, but I can probably figure it out. Like you said, it will be fun. Which by the way is half the point for those who still question my sanity. I get as much enjoyment from taking care of my stuff as I do from using it. I know what you mean about her not being a parade queen, but she's mine and I want her to look as good as I can get her to look.:

Google body work.. and you can improvise tools.. everything from a simple as a hand sized piece of 2x4 and a small hammer with a large flattened head can do some pretty superior body work with patience. Just don't overwork the metal.. you can actually stretch it.. though tractor tin is a wee bit thicker than car body panels.. so you have more 'meat' to work with.

When yuo re-glass the nose.. don't be afraid to use a stiffener made from hardware cloth or tin flashing on the underside as a form for the cloth/resin till it sets. I've used that 1/4 and 1/2" hardware cloth as a template or framework for many a filler/resin/cloth project.. it's a good crutch or cheat for those of us that lack the real skill of a seasoned body profesional..

I was going to work on it a bit tonight, but someone broke into our house this afternoon, ransacked the place, stole stuff and did lots of damage. I had to replace the back doors and frame. Had to use some of my tractor project money on the repairs and we haven't even figured everything that's missing. Once things settle back down I'll post some b/a pics of anything on the tractor I can manage to fix. :

ARGH!.. I feel for you.. we have had breakins just down the street.. one woman was robbed while home with her kids... Luckilly they just wanted her stuff and left fast..

Good luck!! And i hope they find the people and nail their hide to the wall...


Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'll have to find my MSDS.. i think i got it saved at home PC. Don't recall date off hand. but very well could be older than yours. I havn't done any painting in 07 at all..

I agree on the environmental conditions... no real control.. IE.. you wouldn't want to try to make a show paint ob outside.. A spec of dust is all it takes.. or your neighbor putting some silicone tire spray liberally on his tires upwind from you.

I'm no show painter.. i paint my machines solely for preservation.. the fact that a few of them came out real nice had some luck involved.

I will say that I did take lotsa time with my best job.. the Allis G Complete disassembly is easy on a small machine.. though i did have to buff out and re shoot the rear hood cowling due to an imperfection.. Might not have done so .. except the rest of the tractor had turned out so good.. i couldn't leave that 'wart' on there.

That's the main reason i havn't repainte dmy 7610s. OEM paint is still holding.. and even the few areas it is worn a bit.. it's still intact and primer is good.... No use in recoating good paint on a worker that see's brush and shrubs al the time.. at least not while there's still intact paint on her anyway.

Soundguy

One of my oldest friends owns a classic car restoration business. Some of his work has ended up in a few of the most famous car collections out there. (Jay Leno, Reggie Jackson just to name a couple) He has one rule. "The job takes as much time as it needs to be PERFECT". I've seen cars spend an entire year in his shop just to get one small detail just right. While that may be extreme, especially in the case of a tractor, but that's the sort of attitude you have to have, to a greater or lesser degree, to get one perfect. On my MF150, I painted the hood, stripped it, repainted, stripped again, and repainted again. And guess what? It comes back off AGAIN this winter for one more try. All because of one minor flaw. And I'd bet that if I had 10 people lok for that flaw, 7 out of 10 couldn't find it. But I know it's there. A year and a half so far, probably 400 to 500 hours. A bit obsessive maybe, but everyone has that one project that HAS to be right. This was mine.

When I painted my 3000 Ford, the entire paint job, clean-up through decals took 3-1/2 days. The "rush" shows. I've painted a few to sell. They got about the same effort.

The 2440 was somewhere in between. It took about 3 or 4 months of spare time work.

I'm trying to convince myself that I don't need to be so obsessive when I start on dads old Ferguson F-40. I'll do it right. I'll do it carefully. But It's not a museum piece.

Long story short, ONE "Rembrandt" is enough for a lifetime. It's worthwhile for the education in painting, but I'll NEVER spend so much time again, ESPECIALLY on a tractor that'll be bush hogging, plowing, discing, baling hay, and just being a "tractor". Sure was proud of it when it rolled out of the shop though!

 

[Soundguy]

Funny thing happened. After i painted my 5000 ( really needed it.. ) My wife see's me out there hooking it up tot he mower one day and runs over and says.." You aren't going to use it now that it's all pretty are you".. and she said it with genuine angst in her voice.

I had to break it to her gently that I couldn't let a 7500$ /70 hp piece of iron set there while the grass gre just because it was shiny... It really took her some time to come to terms with that. i think she really thought i sunk that much cash into a hay ride puller...

Incedentally.. that paint job had a tragic point. I had just painted it and had rolle dit out from under the barn... went inside to get a soda.. walke dback out and it was full out raining.. Went from clear blue to thunderstorm in? 30 seconds..

After the nice 'texturized' paint cured.. i wetsanded it with 400 then 800 then 1000 and re-shot it. in the end it turne dout better as i had that additional coat of paint on top o fthe 2+primer it already had.. but still... My throat choke dup when i walked outside that day and say the dark sky and rain where there had been sun only seconds ago...!!

Soundguy

One of my oldest friends owns a classic car restoration business. Some of his work has ended up in a few of the most famous car collections out there. (Jay Leno, Reggie Jackson just to name a couple) He has one rule. "The job takes as much time as it needs to be PERFECT". I've seen cars spend an entire year in his shop just to get one small detail just right. While that may be extreme, especially in the case of a tractor, but that's the sort of attitude you have to have, to a greater or lesser degree, to get one perfect. On my MF150, I painted the hood, stripped it, repainted, stripped again, and repainted again. And guess what? It comes back off AGAIN this winter for one more try. All because of one minor flaw. And I'd bet that if I had 10 people lok for that flaw, 7 out of 10 couldn't find it. But I know it's there. A year and a half so far, probably 400 to 500 hours. A bit obsessive maybe, but everyone has that one project that HAS to be right. This was mine.

When I painted my 3000 Ford, the entire paint job, clean-up through decals took 3-1/2 days. The "rush" shows. I've painted a few to sell. They got about the same effort.

The 2440 was somewhere in between. It took about 3 or 4 months of spare time work.

I'm trying to convince myself that I don't need to be so obsessive when I start on dads old Ferguson F-40. I'll do it right. I'll do it carefully. But It's not a museum piece.

Long story short, ONE "Rembrandt" is enough for a lifetime. It's worthwhile for the education in painting, but I'll NEVER spend so much time again, ESPECIALLY on a tractor that'll be bush hogging, plowing, discing, baling hay, and just being a "tractor". Sure was proud of it when it rolled out of the shop though!

 

[Spiveyman]

I'd bet our 2 tractors are are in closer condition than is apaprrent. My chassie paint may be a tad better.. but your tires are much better than mine. I've got a dented left fender that is probably as attractive as your cracked fiberglas nose piece.. etc.

That series of tractor.. the 5xxx, 66xx and 7xxx were some of the best ones ford/NH/CNH ever turned out in my opinion.

Yep, I love that series of Fords. They just don't make 'em like that any more.

I took a break from working on fixing the doors and ran out to take some better pictures of my tractor. Here's a couple shots showing the whole thing with the completed carry all on the back, and some shots of the areas that I'd really like to do something about, the FG dent, the creased hood, and the places that are rubbed through the paint, primer, and down to the bare metal. It seems that I should do something at least to those spots to keep it from rusting out. Although I do keep it in the barn now, so it's not in the elements all the time.

I can see my wife asking the same question about actually using this thing if I had it back in near perfect shape. For a working tractor there is something liberating about having some "character" because you don't freak everytime something happens to it. The other thing that just kind of dawned on me, I'm getting a FEL mounted next week. You won't hardly be able to see the tractor once that thing is on it!

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin Tim,
If you could get that big Ford to fit inside a spray booth you wouldnt have to worry about any of those nasty fumes !