HST pedals: rocker or separate?

[chelydra]

Been looking at Kubotas as a possible downsize from my Kioti CK20 TLB. (The Kioti is wonderful, and I'd like to keep it forever. But it's too big for my current needs, and a smaller machine would be more useful now.) Don't need the BH anymore, so just considering FEL and snowblower.

I'm mainly considering the JD 1026R, which has the advantage (for me) of a narrow 47" blower; or the smaller Kubotas - mainly the BX1860, BX2360 or B2320. Went to an excellent local dealer yesterday for a look. They're all a bit tight for a large guy, seemed well-made except for the dashboard of the BX series, and have suitable specs (except price) for my needs.

One thing I didn't understand, though, is that the HST pedal is not made to be rocked. I have big feet, and could actually bridge the two pedals - barely. Dealer said that it shouldn't be used that way. I do a lot of delicate loader work, inching back and forth. Seems like having to swap pedals dozens of times would be inconvenient.

What do users say? Also, any idea why they did this? Perhaps to prevent people jamming the machine from forward to backward when moving quickly? (I'm always gentle on reversing direction.)

Thanks for your thoughts. General comments on the models here are very helpful.

-chelydra

 

[k0ua]

I know exactly what you mean, I have the "treadle pedal" and love it. and the 2 pedal system is not as fast and responsive as the single pedal, ( I have 2 pedals on my JD mower) BUT, we are in the minority by a wide margin. It seems most people prefer the 2 pedal system, and in fact many "hate" the single treadle pedal. I love it just for the reason you stated, the ability to instantly change direction when grading or doing small repetitave movements like operating near an embankment, you can bet my foot is on top of the treadle pedal for an instant direction change!. When traveling longer distance to rest my foot, the foot comes off the pedal and the heel goes on the floor and toe on the L extension part of the pedal. Good luck and let us know how you come out.

James K0UA

 

[chelydra]

... It seems most people prefer the 2 pedal system, and in fact many "hate" the single treadle pedal....
James K0UA

OK, now I'm really curious! What is it that people prefer about the twin pedals, and dislike about the rocker? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[TractorTidy]

Kioti will hopefully have a subcompact for next spring. Just letting you know. It is the former NH Boomer sub..

 

[Grandad4]

There is no general agreement about which kind of pedal setup is best. About half the HST owners like the rocker style pedal and half like the twin pedal setup. The manufacturers of one style promote it as better than the other style and vice versa. In the end it boils down to a matter of personal preference.

KU0A, I'm not sure us treadle guys are in the minority. Kubota sells at least 50% of the compact tractors in the US, and uses the treadle style. I would agree many in the "hate the treadle" camp can be pretty vocal regarding their preferences, but if there were a real groundswell of demand for the 2 pedal setup to the point of hurting sales, I'd bet Kubota would change in a New York minute. There are plenty of companies out there that are almost guaranteed to make dumb decisions about key product design features, but Kubota is pretty good at getting it right.

But it is a love it or hate it sort of thing, and some of the other brands have been smart enough to realize having the other design brings buyers who don't like the Kubota-style treadle into their showrooms.

I'm glad we get to make such choices. Having all the manufacturers selling essentially the same product isn't good for anyone.

 

[k0ua]

There is no general agreement about which kind of pedal setup is best. About half the HST owners like the rocker style pedal and half like the twin pedal setup. The manufacturers of one style promote it as better than the other style and vice versa. In the end it boils down to a matter of personal preference.

KU0A, I'm not sure us treadle guys are in the minority. Kubota sells at least 50% of the compact tractors in the US, and uses the treadle style. I would agree many in the "hate the treadle" camp can be pretty vocal regarding their preferences, but if there were a real groundswell of demand for the 2 pedal setup to the point of hurting sales, I'd bet Kubota would change in a New York minute. There are plenty of companies out there that are almost guaranteed to make dumb decisions about key product design features, but Kubota is pretty good at getting it right.

But it is a love it or hate it sort of thing, and some of the other brands have been smart enough to realize having the other design brings buyers who don't like the Kubota-style treadle into their showrooms.

I'm glad we get to make such choices. Having all the manufacturers selling essentially the same product isn't good for anyone.

Good points, it is just I have seen several posts on here that guys have said they really dislike the treadle pedal idea. I would think that maybe if you had arthritis in your ankle it could be a problem.. I have it in my knees (especially the left one, no more clutch for me, thank you!) but the ankle works well. Each to his own, and probably if I used the 2 pedal system for a while on a tractor, I would get used to it just fine.

James K0UA

 

[BeezFun]

OK, now I'm really curious! What is it that people prefer about the twin pedals, and dislike about the rocker? Maybe I'm missing something.

I've used both. I find that when I use a rocker my foot's not comfortable with the toe tipped forward for very long, so I end up putting my heel on the front edge of the rocker so it's just the weight of my leg keeping the pedal down. So I end up moving my foot when I want to backup anyway. I agree that if you're just doing loader work the rocker is probably a little nicer.

I rented a machine called a Terramite a few times, it had a rocker . It's probably an anomoly because it was the biggest piece of junk I've ever used, but I found that the bouncing of the machine on rough ground caused my foot to bounce on the rocker in such a way that made the machine jump forward and backward like a bucking bronco. I've not experienced that problem with better equipment.

 

[Branchchipper]

We have now put about 300 hours on an L5030hst, and are completely happy with the Kubota treadle design (albeit not the latest version); it works VERY well.

Another important thing to consider when comparing brands; there is FAR less plastic in the Kubotas than in the competitor's models.

In fact, some of the recent JD models we have had a chance to check out seemed shockingly "light duty" when it came to cowl and fender components...

We have a small JD machine to use as a rough comparison- that plastic does crack and degrade over time; steel is better!

 

[bp fick]

The BX was pretty easy to use. The forward and reverse on the B2320 are farther apart and you do have to reach, a bit, with your heal for it. I have a small boot size. A guy with size 13 wouldn't have my issue, I suspect.

I say that only because both were listed in your "look over" list.

I am so used to Kubota's layout, I no longer give any of it a second thought. Doesn't help you decide which is better/worse. I'm equally sure I would have adjusted to the two peddle system equally well. I just don't have any experience with it. My lawn tractor uses a "slide stick", which I don't find as easy to use, but I don't have any problems doing so.

Kubota, LS (and all their clones), Kioti (and all the clones) use the rocker style. Together, that a whole bunch of rocker style HSTs out there.

So, I got nothing, essentially. :laughing::laughing:

 

[OrangeRidge]

OK, now I'm really curious! What is it that people prefer about the twin pedals, and dislike about the rocker? Maybe I'm missing something.

If you're a bit too quick with the footwork on a
rocker , you can give the HST a bit of grief . Seperates will slow that
trait down a little

 

[Piston]

I have a kubota and although I prefer the two pedal setup to the rocker style kubota uses, it's not too big of a deal. The brakes on the other hand, now THAT is a PITA! I still can't understand why Kubota thinks it's a good idea to put the brakes and hst pedal on the same side.
I really do love my Bota, but I'm 99% sure I won't have another HST tractor with the brakes on the same side as the HST pedal.
People told me that I would get used to not using the brake pedals independently....well, I haven't.
I really don't use the brakes for turning simply because of the arrangement of the pedals, would I like to? Heck ya! But I don't.

So in my opinion, the pedal design (1 vs. 2) doesn't make too much of a difference, however I do prefer 2, but moreso the deciding factor for me would be which side the brakes are on. I really miss using the brakes for sharper turning, or when the front tires aren't getting enough traction in the snow to turn.

Unless I find a good deal on a used 5740 with cab, then I'll be switching brands, however, I may never sell my little bota to begin with, because I AM very happy with it otherwise.

In the end, it's all personal preference. :thumbsup:

 

[devildog1]

I'm in the camp of the completely happy with the Kubota treadle design, much faster when you need to change directions when using loader.
DevilDog

 

[firemech]

I have a Kubota 3400 with the treadle pedal and for the most part love it. But as always there is a but. We own a marina and use this tractor extensively for moving boats around our facility. When using the tractor a lot like eight to ten hours a day in spring when the boats are going out and now in the fall when the boats are coming back,,,,,,,, the positioning of my foot on the pedal when backing really stresses the right knee thus causing great pain and swelling during the busy season. You may never use your unit as long at one time as I do but you mention arthritis so you might want to try before you buy to make sure it doesn't bother the old joints

 

[Piston]

I'm in the camp of the completely happy with the Kubota treadle design, much faster when you need to change directions when using loader.
DevilDog

Do you really think it is "much" faster? (and I'm asking honestly, not to be sarcastic or start an argument) But I just don't see how it is all that much faster?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my kubota and I think it is a great tractor. However, I don't see how the treadle pedal makes it any noticeably faster to change direction than two separate pedals.
My neighbor has a JD 4720 with separate pedals (HST) and I've operated that a bit, I never did do a 'test' of the two by timing myself, but I didn't notice that it was any slower. It seems like when you start talking about speed and efficiency with one type over another, it is all theoretical and not real world.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument, and I do LOVE my tractor
but I don't think it's any faster because of the pedal design. Just my opinion :thumbsup:

 

[radman1]

I have had a kubota and CaseIH CUTs with tredle and 3 JDs with 2 peddle arrangement. For me, the 2 peddle is vastly better. More precise control, very effortless when using it for a long time, and much easier when looking backwards using the 2 peddle. Twisting your body while looking backwards, is much easier with 2 peddle.

 

[Rancher Ed]

Guys, he is not talking about a rocker verse 2 side be side pedals, like you are thinking. If you read his post:

One thing I didn't understand, though, is that the HST pedal is not made to be rocked. I have big feet, and could actually bridge the two pedals - barely. Dealer said that it shouldn't be used that way. I do a lot of delicate loader work, inching back and forth. Seems like having to swap pedals dozens of times would be inconvenient.

He is talking about the HST and the kubota B and BXs.

His currant Kioti has a rocker pedal like Kubota's L series, which you are all thinking of. What he doesn't understand, is why they made it the way they did on the B and BXs. For some reason, Kubota built them with neither 2 pedals side by side, or a rocker like on the Ls. Instead, the forward is up where you would expect it, and the reverse is back where the differential lock would be, with flat deck between them.

I can't find a good picture, but if you go here, click "Features" and them click "Top" over to the right,and then click on the little circle that says "2-Pedal HST Operation", you can see what I am talking about.


chelydra - I can't really help you, we have a M7040 with hydraulic shuttle, but I can't think of any good reason to do it the way they did on the B and BX. Either do two pedals side by side (my personal preference) or the rocker style like on the Ls and your Kioti.

Ed

 

[Piston]

Thanks Ed! :thumbsup:

 

[chelydra]

... I can't think of any good reason to do it the way they did on the B and BX. Either do two pedals side by side (my personal preference) or the rocker style like on the Ls and your Kioti.
Ed

Thanks for clarifying my ignorant post, Rancher Ed. I didn't even realize that side-by-side pedals are sometimes used for HST. As you correctly point out, my real question was: why have a rocker if you can't rock it? Perhaps heel-down is more intuitive for some people, but it seemed awkward to me, difficult to get such fine control in reverse, and some danger of getting boots stuck in the treadle. (My feet are big enough to bridge both pedals on the Kubotas, but just barely.)

Just one more variable to learn. I didn't even know what the loader level indicator was when I bought my CK20, and now find it vital and use it constantly in every kind of work.

I'm also realizing that usage patterns drive preferences a lot. For example, the dealer was emphatic that the thousand-dollar seat on some models is greatly appreciated. I'm guessing that they mow or till or scrape, which I don't - I'm jumping down every five minutes or so. My first machine was almost an ASV-30 track loader; some rebranded units were being dumped at a great price. But the soft suspension that makes it so attractive to many people made it useless to me; with mainly skid-steer experience previously, I want to use the machine's stiffness to pry out stumps etc. Can easily see where someone going long distances at constant speed would prefer side-by-side or a non-bridging rocker.

All adds to the fun and exploration...

 

[RobertN]

The HST on my old B8200HSTD was kind of a treadle; at least I was able to use it that way with my big feet. I REALLY liked it. In fact, even after two years, I still sometimes will reach with my heel out of habit, even though this newer tractor has side by side pedals. After 12 years, it was just natural.

I will say, i would not want to go back to Kubota's brake pedal layout. Having the HST and the brakes on one side is awful. While I had my Kubota, i didn't think much of it. However, after using this NH TC40D with HST on the right, brakes on the left, I LOVE the steering/cutting brakes, and have found numerous uses for them.

I do miss that treadle operation of the HST. But, as a more informed user, the brakes/pedals on the same side is a horrible design.

 

[TripleR]

We have both and don't have a strong preference one way or the other.