Hydraulic SSQA Plow Troubles

RoninMaine · Aug 22, 2014

Hi there everyone. I have a question that I am sure will be easy for some of you. Here it is, I have a 2013 Kubota L3200. I installed a hyd thumb on the bucket with a diverter valve from surplus center. It works great. Probably the best money I have spent on this machine. Anyway, I figured I would take a old fisher snow plow and weld on a SSQA plate and use it to plow if my truck went down. Well I got it all welded up looking good. I bought a couple new hoses with quick disconnects and hooked up the cylinders tonight. These are regular single acting cylinders that were on the plow. When I try to angle the plow it wont- either way- but my thumb with the one double acting cylinder works great. I am wondering if it is not letting the pressure off in the cylinder that needs to go in and letting the hyd fluid flow back into the system- I would appreciate any help!!

nybirdman · Aug 23, 2014

That's odd,should work.I have done the exact same on my tractor.Thumb on bucket and snowplow,also a tree shear I just built(double acting).Could be a couple things;are the QD's the correct ones,match your tractor?"Did the plow cylinders work before?You may have a mechanical bind on the plow.

RoninMaine · Aug 23, 2014

No kidding. Well its good to know that my way of thinking is not completely screwed here. I went out and messed with it some this am. I think one of the rams is bad. They have been sitting a while. I unhooked the rams and manually angled the plow so I do know it is not a mechanical issue with the plow it self. That really just leaves the rams. It will angle to the left, but not the right. I hooked the hoses together and worked the plow back and forth but it goes hard- I will start with rams and go from there I guess-

nybirdman · Aug 23, 2014

Check with Surplus Center for new cylinders.They have been good to me in the past.

RoninMaine · Aug 28, 2014

Ok - well I tried a known good set of hydraulic cylinders and no change. This is the selector valve I am using-

12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

I really dont understand it- It runs my grapple just fine. The only difference I can see is that the grapple has one double acting hydraulic cylinder, and the plow has two single acting cylinders- Please anyone feel free to chime in as I am lost. I am sure it is something stupid that i am missing. Could I have the diverter valve plumbed wrong? seems like the grapple would not work right... When I try to angle the plow it angles left, you can tell it is nor right... its a little slow- and when you try to angle it to the right it does nothing, I mean you can tell there is a load on the hydraulic pump- you can see the hoses flex and the pump changes tone- but no movement from the plow- Is there anything else I can tell you? I would love to hear some ideas! Also, I did take the cylinders off and manually angled the plow to make sure there is no binding mechanically. I can post pics if it helps.... thank you!

J_J · Aug 28, 2014

Did you use the curl circuit?

I believe there is a problem with using the curl circuit with regen on SA cyl.

RoninMaine · Aug 28, 2014

Hi JJ, I was hoping you would chime in. I have followed your posts for a while and its obvious you know what is going on with hydraulics. Yes, I am tapped into the curl circuit, it provides the feed for the diverter valve.

J_J · Aug 28, 2014

You should be able to push the lever to the left, and the cyl should act normal.

If you push the lever to the right, the cyl might work ok if you don't go into regen.

When you go into regen, one of the work ports is blocked because the regen is trying to send rod end fluid to the base end of the cyl for a fast dump.

Try a little lever movement and see if it will work.

When you push the lever to go one way, the one work port is open to let the SA1 fluid out, and the other work port is filling the SA2 cyl, helping that cyl to turn the plow.

Stay out of regen.

If regen is in the first part of your lever movement to the right , you are in trouble.

RoninMaine · Aug 28, 2014

Wow. Well, I will try it again, but I think I am in trouble because I have been pretty gentle on the controls and have seen not movement... isn't that something... that sucks. Well I hate to do it after spending the money on the other set of cylinders and the hoses, fittings etc. but it sounds like I may just have to pin the blade so I can manually angle it. I am sure it is doable but I have spent enough money on it for a while. Maybe I will buy some longer hoses when cash flow is a little better and run them off of my remotes. I assume that will work ok...

J_J · Aug 28, 2014

One DA cyl should work.

RoninMaine · Aug 29, 2014

ok, that is what I will do- I will mount one Da cyl on the rh side, where my plow is normally straight or angled right so the load is on a closed cylinder when angled. Thanks a lot for you help JJ, I appreciate it- Ron in Maine~

J_J · Aug 29, 2014

Since you chose to install a DA cyl, I would install a double relief valve across the cyl for shock protection.

kennyd · Aug 29, 2014

As I mentioned on the OTT forum, I believe your trouble is the regen function of your valve. Try pushing the joystick further to the right to get out of the regen portion of the valve. And as I mentioned a search of the word "regen" will turn up tons of reading.

RoninMaine · Aug 29, 2014

That is a great writeup KennyD. I appreciate you sharing that with me- It makes a lot more sense now. I will try this this weekend and let you know. You know hydraulics seem like they would be a relatively simple thing, but there is more to it then in and out I guess. I know when I put my grapple on, I installed the diverter valve everything went well. I fired up my machine and tried to operate the grapple and it did not work properly at all- kind of did the same thing the plow does- my hoses were backwards on the grapple. You would not think it would make a difference, just run backwards....

farm boy00 · Sep 1, 2014

Just take both single cylinders off, and replace with them with one double acting cylinder. U will just have a cylinder on one side, not both. What u do for running lines along the loader arms. Just regular hydro lines ??

RoninMaine · Sep 2, 2014

Yes, that is my plan. I will buy a new DA cylinder the same stroke and do that- yes just regular 3/8 line with brackets that hold it to the inside of the loader arms all the way to the diverter valve.

kennyd · Sep 2, 2014

RoninMaine said:
Yes, that is my plan. I will buy a new DA cylinder the same stroke and do that- yes just regular 3/8 line with brackets that hold it to the inside of the loader arms all the way to the diverter valve.

Ron, 1/4" hose is really all you need since the small cylinder is really a low-flow device, it may help slow the cylinder down a bit as well to keep the plow from slamming from side-to-side. I hope the DA cylinder works for you, but if it's truly a regen problem it may exhibit the same lock-up tendency the two SA cylinders did.

RoninMaine · Sep 2, 2014

Yes, I will run 1/4- But why wouldn't one DA cylinder work- I was thinking about it, if I took the DA cylinder off of my grapple that works just fine lines and all, and pinned it to my plow it would work- it would have to- I have not changed anything except what it is pinned to.... Someday I will understand this hyd stuff better...

J_J · Sep 2, 2014

A DA cyl will work.

kennyd · Sep 2, 2014

RoninMaine said:
Yes, I will run 1/4- But why wouldn't one DA cylinder work- I was thinking about it, if I took the DA cylinder off of my grapple that works just fine lines and all, and pinned it to my plow it would work- it would have to- I have not changed anything except what it is pinned to.... Someday I will understand this hyd stuff better...