Hydro or Shuttle for the long haul?

[Blue Mule]

There would be an easy way to figure this all out. Go to New Hollands parts website and start comparing part numbers. If someone states the two model numbers of the tractors in question I'll spend a bit of time on it tonite if no one does it before me. I'm going to assume they are both HST.

I have a 2021 Workmaster 25. The tractor I'm looking at trading into is a 2019 Workmaster 40 (but it's still a "new" tractor as it has been sitting on the dealer lot since then and has 0.2 hours on it).

 

[pmsmechanic]

On the Workmaster 25 the HST pump part # is MT40365037.

ON the Workmaster 40 the HST pump part # is MT40365036.

There is really not much more information given other than technical drawings. The two pumps look similar but have parts that are different.

 

[ptsg]

On the Workmaster 25 the HST pump part # is MT40365037.

ON the Workmaster 40 the HST pump part # is MT40365036.

There is really not much more information given other than technical drawings. The two pumps look similar but have parts that are different.

Those different part numbers could be as simple as an adjustment to the relief pressures. The Workdmaster 40 would run higher pressures due to extra HP.

 

[Xfaxman]

Those different part numbers could be as simple as an adjustment to the relief pressures. The Workdmaster 40 would run higher pressures due to extra HP.

And as I posted earlier, the relief pressure setting on the Workmaster 25 may be the problem.

 

[Blue Mule]

And as I posted earlier, the relief pressure setting on the Workmaster 25 may be the problem.

Is this something a shade tree mechanic could adjust? Or is it controlled electronically?

 

[ptsg]

Is this something a shade tree mechanic could adjust? Or is it controlled electronically?

What stalls exactly in High range? The engine or the transmission? If the engine stalls, then you just don't enough HP. If the engine keeps running and the tractor just stops moving with the transmission whining, I suppose the pressures could be increased a little bit.

 

[Blue Mule]

What stalls exactly in High range? The engine or the transmission? If the engine stalls, then you just don't enough HP. If the engine keeps running and the tractor just stops moving with the transmission whining, I suppose the pressures could be increased a little bit.

That's exactly what I was just going to come in here and write. The engine actually bogs down like it's going to stall which says to me that the transmission isn't the problem. She just doesn't have enough power to move this 4,000 lb. machine around. I honestly think these companies putting 24 horse engines into large frame compact tractors are biting off a little more than they can chew.

 

[the old grind]

Example of one character being different: My engine is a N843L. vs a N843. L stands for long stroke and adds another .2 L, so 1.7L vs 1.5L. There can be a few or a lot of shared components under the paint and the identical appearance.

If there's just one relief valve/setting for the whole machine vs a separate one for the HST drive then its a DIY to adjust the pressure. It would affect loader functions as well as drive. I bought a liquid filled 3k psi gauge (5K might have been better) and a hose for ~$50 from Surplus Center. Lots of ways to connect or tap in.

Tee'd between male & female QDs it can be connected in the loader lift circuit. Run the FEL up or down accordingly to stall and read the gauge. Adjustment is often by inserting a shim under the Spring that sets pressure. Don't count on this being 100% to spec from the factory unless verified by test. In the trade we have a term 'stacking tolerances'.

... I honestly think these companies putting 24 horse engines into large frame compact tractors are biting off a little more than they can chew.

Not at all. That's why we have transmissions. People are buying <25 hp machines for whatever reasons and getting work done because they don't mind shifting and aren't trying to do too much with too little. Would you test drive a truck or geared tractor with std engine, then drive it around the block in high gear to gauge its suitability? I'd start out in lower gear, one that I'd tow with. IMO, some folks should avoid HST.

 

[rbstern]

That's exactly what I was just going to come in here and write. The engine actually bogs down like it's going to stall which says to me that the transmission isn't the problem. She just doesn't have enough power to move this 4,000 lb. machine around. I honestly think these companies putting 24 horse engines into large frame compact tractors are biting off a little more than they can chew.

The Mitsubishi engine in these New Holland and LS units is de-rated. It's really a 29HP engine (at 2800rpm, IIRC). The eletronic RPM limiter keeps the HP to the 25HP requirement for Tier IV emissions.

I disagree with your assessment. I think these motors are actually a good solution for somone who wants to avoid emissions complexity and doesn't need high gear for anything other than moving the tractor unloaded. My 26hp Yanmar will lose RPM going uphill in the highest gear setting, if it's carrying a heavy implement. And that's without a loader, in a lighter frame than the LS/NH. Like the LS/NH, the Yanmar is capable of excellent work output in low and mid-range gears. It's just the nature of the beast with a small tractor and small engine. It's a trade-off that looks worse when mated to a hydro transmission, which is forcing you to give up about 10% of your horsepower, when you don't have much to spare. I specifically choose shuttle shift for that very reason.

If I'm buying a 40hp tractor, in my situation, it's for more lift, more pull, more stability. Not for travel speed. In your situation, you want to move the tractor faster on hills. So 25hp is not the right answer for you, and you're doing what you need to do to remedy that.

 

[Reb954]

Reading through this thread makes me glad I choose a shuttle shift with two gear boxes and a clutch.