Inquiring Minds!

[StevenPaul]

Basically I tell my kids the following, you're future is already written. There are large corporation "think tanks or brainstormers" that spend millions of dollars hoping that you make the choices you're making now. There are the few that excel and learn and take the world by storm, then there's those that just squeak by, and then there are those that don't care and are more rebellious. Basically the ol' upper, middle, and lower class. In my experience, no matter what this world has to offer, it always comes back to, you get what you put into it and if you've put a lot in and receive nothing, then you still have done your job and there's no worries and no regrets. How this relates to kids now-n-days is that school is school and always will be, but life is life and there in lies the experiences that kids will carry around with them forever. So when you see a kid that appears to be void of any "mechanical" skills, take a minute or two to show them a couple of tips and tricks. Who knows, you may have just helped the next inventor of the 22nd century wheel. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
yes there is a pun intended there.

Steve

 

[daTeacha]

I'm glad to hear that there are numerous opportunities out there for those without that magical piece of paper called a college degree to make a good living. I tell my kids that, but the majority of what they hear does not support the idea, nor do the statistics.

I've been in this education business for 39 years now. I've seen all kinds of students and all kinds of kids. You're right in saying they get out of it what they put into it, just like anything else.

The thing we can't lose sight of is the simple fact that the only constant in this world is change, and that's constantly accelerating. Subject matter in academic courses will be outdated quickly, just like today's computer is old in a year or less, but the ability to learn is what we need to push.

Kids with a knack for hands-on work, mechanical stuff, etc. need to be nurtured and informed about the high paying jobs they can get into. Our school system, unfortunately, is run by people I call "educationists" who just seem to know better than everyone else how to do anything, including teaching. Most of them have maybe 5 years in a classroom, and that was quite a while ago and pretty much irrelevant to today's school. But, guess who sets policy?

How bad is it? Several years ago, when Ohio was just starting down the path to today's version of the mandated tests, some genius in Columbus, upon hearing that kids in the inner city districts did poorly on the tests, decided that the thing to make them work was -----are you sitting down? ------- A televised pep assembly! This idiot figured all the kids who were out on the street instead of in school would magically come to school just to watch the assembly on TV, then be inspired to do a great job on the test.

I better stop now, since I know you guys don't believe that, despite the fact that it's true. Besides, I could go on for days relating incidents of bureaucratic bungling and idiotic actions ordered by the educationists. Just don't call them educators, because they interfere with the process.

 

[bugstruck]

DaTeacha,

You may be ranting a bit, but your right!! I see it from a skewed/corporate vantage point, but it reads the same.

By the way.... Thanks for what you do. For staying in the trenches and not giving up the fight. The kids need good educators with practical sense. When we complain it's not really about the students, it's us we are really talking about here. We let it happen and haven't stood in there and mixed it up, so to speak, as the educators have. Then we wonder why we see less than spectacular results. You teachers need some help from other sources that your not getting. Not that you don't get parent's involvement, just not always in a constructive way.

I like that educationists label. They've earned it. TV pep rally.... Wonder how much education it took to make that brilliant decision? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Too much, no doubt.

Now for the real question from an Inquiring Mind. Will any of this make my tractor run any better? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

EDIT. I think I need to go back to school based on some of my spelling /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[getut]

I have pretty much of a philosophical view of the education... keep in mind what I am about to say includes only the kids willing to learn.

With each generation of children, combined with the advancement of technology, there will be more and more specialization starting at earlier and earlier ages. Technology doesn't benefit (much) from the instinct that we are born with (unlike many animals). 99.9% of useful knowledge for us is learned, and as our technology advances, it causes people to have to specialize just to be able to cope with the huge amounts of knowledge necessary.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I got into this discussion a little late, but I have to confess that I am guilty as charged. I think I'm probably the very beginnings of this up and coming generation that you all are talking about.

I am the kid who took all of the honors and AP classes along with music and all of the other stuff that "Looks good on a College Application". I really wanted to take shop or woodworking, but I literally couldn't because of all the classes I needed to take to keep me on track for college. My classes, music, and grades all paid off because I got through most of college with at least half of my tuition paid through scholarships.

I loved college and the things I learned. I have been able to get a job that I love that pays fair and leaves me time for my hobbies, but it's only lately that I have been able to learn some of the other stuff like mechanics, woodworking, and, of course, tractors.

I've had the rare pleasure of having some close friends that have taught me some of this. I had a neighboor while I was in college that would let me come "help" him work on cars. There was an older guy who lives up the road from my parents that took me under his wing after I bought my first wood lathe and taught me the basics. A co-worker at a ranch I worked on taught me how to weld.

Now I have all of you to laugh at my ignorance and then patiently talk me through learning the basics of tractors, implements, etc.

It's these relationships that have given me the little bit of mechanical inclination that I have. I hope that I can return the favor someday by teaching my own kids or someone else's how to enjoy working with your hands.

I wouldn't have done anything differently, but I wish I could have. I guess I just wish there were more hours in the day. I guess that I just have to hope that I live long enough to learn everything that I want to.

 

[rogdan]

15 plus years ago in high school I took the basics and lazed through with a C average. I feel then that nothing was offered above my basic education that could not be taught in 2 years of high school. Why could I not spend my final two years in real vocational training if that was my chosen path?
I went to college after HS, the AG stuff to try to pick up a few mechanical skills and to fill in my schedule with something interesting.

 

[Brack]

Hopefully others will be encouraged by this thought. I recently attended a NASA Educator Workshop at the Marshall Spaceflight Center in Alabama. One of the presenters was a lead engineer at the facility who had grown up in the region. He was in charge of hiring new engineers. His ideal "hires" were B/C engineering students who grew up on a farm. 4.0 students scared the heck out of him and usually couldn't interact well in problem-solving situations. He said the farm folks made the best engineers; bar none! The farm provided them with invaluable, practical, think-on-your-feet experiences that connected the world of how things actually work (behave) to the world of how things are supposed to work. As science educator, I've seen our school's best and brightest struggle to follow assembly instructions for lab set up when another student could just look at the equipment and know how it needed to be set up. Just like there are various athletic talents, there are a wide variety of mental talents. Life isn't about "holding all the cards," it is about playing the cards you're dealt well.

 

[Farwell]

Switch to ZoneAlarm, I haven't had a problem since I did.
Farwell

 

[keeney]

One of my favorite examples of "book-learned" mechanical engineering vs "real-world" involves a young new ME we had hired.

This young guy had designed some enclosure components that when assembled together, looked like crap. Two components that were supposed to align, didn't. He spent two days measuring the prototype and accusing the fabricators that the parts were made wrong somehow (even though he couldn't find any dimensions that were incorrect). He claimed that the parts must be wrong because "everything lines up perfectly in the CAD model!"

Well, it turned out that in the CAD model, he had left a 0.060" clearance around the one part that was removable, just like they teach you in school to make sure it will fit without interference. In CAD, if you leave a clearance underneath a part, it will just float there in space in its "nominal" position. In the real world, gravity will make the top part fall down tight against the other surface.

The young engineer was very surprised to "discover" gravity in the real world.

- Rick

 

[Marlowe]

Of my four kids, only my youngest daughter took anything remotely resembling a shop class. She was the only girl in the class, and a tall, slender, rather curvascious red head. Not the type you'd expect in shop class. All the guys, instructor included, were delighted to have her in the class, until the instructor started asking questions regarding equipment and its usages. She was ususally the only one who knew the answers. Her explanation when they asked how she knew such things? "I just help my dad". Makes me proud.

And while I'm bragging, all four of them are that way. Two boys, two girls, and they can operate a computer too, but they didn't learn that from me. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif