International 444, 1968. Progress Thread, Getting Going

[DJ54]

Hopefully this is a better wiring diagram than you have. Wiring Diagram 354-374-444 – International Harvester Heritage Association Note it is for a U.K. model so you'll have to compare to what you have. Looks like it'd be a lot easier to print those pages off if you're on a PC and have a printer.

I'm thinking VR output should be between 13.5- 14.5volts, depending on how low your battery is.

A quick look at the wiring diagram I'm seeing a ballast resistor. The 444 may be one of the models that when engaging the starter it puts 12 volts to the distributor for a good hot spark to get it to start. One the starter button is released it cuts that circuit then goes through another to run on 6 volts for longer contact points life. You've got some sorting out to do on that harness, but I'd be looking for the ballast resistor, and check voltage output.

Killing the engine is done simply by cutting current to the ignition. Not seeing a key switch, I assume one of the push/pull switches replaced a key switch.

 

[FlyFishn]

Judging from the wiring I've been poking around with - I am not impressed at all with the integrity of it. The insulation is cracked and the copper inside is exposed/green pretty much all the way through the harness.

So I think the smarter way to go about this, unless I was to do a full tear down restoration, is to do all new wiring to the critical components to get it running.

I worked on it this weekend. I got the starter wired with a push button. I did have some issues with the starter - the gear wouldn't engage, it would just spin. I took the starter off and messed with it. I sprayed some penetrating lube on the clutch and shaft and now the gear will engage better, but still not 100% (has grinded some). Judging by the teeth on the gear - it has been doing that for a long while.

I also wired up the solenoid that is there. With actual crimps and screwing down on them making good contact the solenoid works. So that is a good thing.

Busy weekend. I will see if I can get some pictures up later.

 

[FlyFishn]

Here is another mystery at the moment - the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb.

Is there a way to block that port? Or does the solenoid definitely have to be there and powered to get fuel thru the main jet?

 

[DJ54]

Welcome to the club. I've completely rewired more than several wiring harnesses over the years from small farm tractors to garden tractors. Some in the condition you have, to surgical bypasses which looks like yours may have one or two, to 12V conversion hack jobs.

The empty fuse holder seen on the lower dash is one point I see, along with a push/pull switch replacing the key switch possibly bypassing that fuse holder, unless there is an inline fuse holder that can't be seen under that dash. This is merely a suggestion, so take it for what it is worth. I'd put a couple inline fuse holders that use the AT (flat type) fuses in the wire that goes to what should be the key switch, but apparently push/pull switch, between where it picks up current to that switch, and another between that switch to the starter button. A few bucks now may save the entire tractor someday down the road, with all of the other wiring with the sheath exposed and possibly cause a short causing a fire.

Finding that starter gear in that condition, guarantee there are at least 2 spots on the flywheel ring gear that look about the same. I learned many years ago working with Dad that a 4 cylinder stops in 2 places, 6 cyl. in 3 places, and V-8 in 4 places. Both gears will need to be replaced to repair properly, but for now if you can turn the engine slightly to get passed that point it may very well let the starter gear fully mesh with the flywheel ring gear if you have the bendix freed up. I might also suggest once the bendix is freed up to use a spray graphite to lube it keeping things dry inside. Only suggestions from past experience.

You could have the starter rebuilt or get a rebuilt one but I wouldn't replace without replacing the ring gear too, or you'll only have the same thing later with the starter.

One thing I'd definitely check, which I believe I saw in the diagram is the wiring going to the coil. There should be 2 wires going to the coil, but one runs through a ballast resistor. It will put 12V to the points for a good hot spark to start when engaging the starter, but when you release the starter button current then will pass through the ballast resistor cutting back to 6V for extended contact points life. Since you have a multi-meter that should be easy enough to check the voltage.

That's a great idea taking pictures. I've been doing that ever since I got a digital camera, and now use my phone when tearing something down it may be a while before getting back to, or someday down the road. I save pics to a file on my PC and a couple even on a thumb drive for future reference.

 

[DJ54]

Here is another mystery at the moment - the fuel shut off solenoid on the carb.

Is there a way to block that port? Or does the solenoid definitely have to be there and powered to get fuel thru the main jet?

View attachment 883657

I did a quick search for a fuel solenoid on the C-153 engine and by luck came upon a thread for one on a 444. Easier for me to post the link to that thread: 444 Fuel Shutoff Solenoid Then did a search for a "load adjusting needle" for a C-153: C-153 adjustable load needle - Google Search Then another search for a fuel solenoid for a C-153 engine and found this: 71358C92 Fuel Solenoid

In my mind I guess I always though the fuel solenoid was to cut fuel to keep them from dieseling when hot and seeing it that close to the exhaust sort of confirmed that. But seeing a load adjusting needle in the thread above shoots that out of the water.

Looking at your picture I'm not seeing a wire going to it. Either it's hidden or was removed/broken off. Either way, I'll assume it did run before. But also seeing that rubber fuel line that close to the exhaust looks like an accident waiting to happen. Personally, I'd figure out a way to make that connection with a metal line, but again merely a suggestion. If you choose to go with another rubber line I'd make some sort of heat shield, for what that would be worth. But a metal line that close to the exhaust sems like it would be pretty susceptible to vapor lock. Just my opinion. Engineers, gotta' love them...

 

[FlyFishn]

The wire from the solenoid is broken off, the remnants are there inside the can.

 

[FlyFishn]

One thing I'd definitely check, which I believe I saw in the diagram is the wiring going to the coil. There should be 2 wires going to the coil, but one runs through a ballast resistor. It will put 12V to the points for a good hot spark to start when engaging the starter, but when you release the starter button current then will pass through the ballast resistor cutting back to 6V for extended contact points life. Since you have a multi-meter that should be easy enough to check the voltage.

That's a great idea taking pictures. I've been doing that ever since I got a digital camera, and now use my phone when tearing something down it may be a while before getting back to, or someday down the road. I save pics to a file on my PC and a couple even on a thumb drive for future reference.

OK on all. As to the fuse idea - that is a valid one. I have a bunch of fuses, but not sure I have sutable holders. I can look, and order more if need-be.

The bit about the ignition you mention is really helpful.

That is what it looks like from the diagrams. And the 12v "hot start" comes from the start switch (button or key in "start" position) through the start solenoid. I find this a bit odd - Im not sure why that would pass through the start solenoid, other than for some kind of circuit protection/current limiting - but that is what the ballast resistor is for on the other leg of the ignition circuit.

 

[FlyFishn]

OK, I need to add some humor to this thread. At least I about fell over laughing when I got the hood off the other day...

My God that is a Gorilla Weld if I've ever seen one

But hey, if it works...

Now to some other "uglies" - the exhaust portion of the manifold is cracked in 2 places.

It looks like the same weld treatment was attempted here also, but not to much success.

I'm thinking maybe a high temp JB Weld paste to seal these up with?

 

[FlyFishn]

Finding that starter gear in that condition, guarantee there are at least 2 spots on the flywheel ring gear that look about the same. I learned many years ago working with Dad that a 4 cylinder stops in 2 places, 6 cyl. in 3 places, and V-8 in 4 places. Both gears will need to be replaced to repair properly, but for now if you can turn the engine slightly to get passed that point it may very well let the starter gear fully mesh with the flywheel ring gear if you have the bendix freed up. I might also suggest once the bendix is freed up to use a spray graphite to lube it keeping things dry inside. Only suggestions from past experience.

Here are a couple pictures showing the ring gear and starter. They aren't the greatest, but the ring gear doesn't appear to have any "missing teeth" in the area that is exposed. Just the gear on the starter seems like the tips of the teeth are worn down.

 

[FlyFishn]

In my mind I guess I always though the fuel solenoid was to cut fuel to keep them from dieseling when hot and seeing it that close to the exhaust sort of confirmed that. But seeing a load adjusting needle in the thread above shoots that out of the water.

I am still chewing through this one.

Looking at the info (and thanks a bunch for the links) - if I were to guess - the solenoid actually controls air, not fuel, in that when it is open (off) it allows the vacuum of the engine running to draw air through the main jet, instead of fuel, there by starving the engine of fuel during shut down. The opposite would be true when the solenoid is closed (on) - the vacuum of the engine (with the assistance of the choke flap) puts suction on the main jet instead, puling fuel in to the intake.

Just a hypothesis at the moment.

If that is the case - then simply blocking that port would do the same thing - it would create a hard block to draw only fuel. That would line up with the link you posted on the replacement non-adjustable solenoid - one that doesn't have a needle valve in it.