Is Kioti Viable for the Long Term??

viking65 · May 13, 2005

Vince:

I don't want a big 3 tractor today. I'm glad the Kioti tractor is a viable option for you. I hope you love your tractor, Kioti makes a good product. In some parts of the country I'm sure the difference in price is more or less than the $2000 I used. Still, even if the difference is double, $4000, over the long term that's still not a lot of money any way you spin it.

Not directed specifically to Vince:

I never said that the big 3 tractor is better made than a second tier tractor. I just wanted to discuss the viability of Kioti for the long term. You can lump any of the other second tier competitors in with Kioti as far as their success in the long term as well (Mahindra, branson, Zetor, Montana...etc) they are all facing the same problems. Not all of them will survive.

Kioti is just as likely as Mahindra to fail or Branson, Montana or whoever. They all make good tractors, they all are facing bad dealer problems, parts availability issues, corporate support issues, dealer network weaknesses.

There is a premium to be paid for longevity, strong dealers, strong dealer support, excellent parts availability, complete dealer network, and the likelihood that the company and your dealer will be around in the foreseeable future to support their product and their customers. None of the second tier builders can offer this so they cannot expect to charge the prices that a big 3 manufacturer charges although some try to and they typically lose a sale.

I'm not picking on Kioti or any other manufacturer but there does seem to be some thin skinned Kioti owners that cannot just talk about Kioti as a business. This thread is not a personal attack on your favorite tractor comapny. I hope Kioti survives, but it won't be easy for them or the others like them.

DK35vince · May 13, 2005

( In some parts of the country I'm sure the difference in price is more or less than the $2000 I used. Still, even if the difference is double, $4000, over the long term that's still not a lot of money any way you spin it.
)

$4,000 differance. You better keep going. The price differances in my area where higher than that. (Thats a lot of money in my book no matter how you slice it !!)
By the way, I don't have a dealer problem ( I like my dealer)!
I've never had a parts problem !
What corporate support issues /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I own a 2001 Kioti DK 35 with 516 hours . I have yet to have any of the issues you listed..

RedRocker · May 13, 2005

I guess another selling point for me was the fact that all CUT's are foreign made, some have old standby American names, but American in name only.

Donnyj · May 13, 2005

I did a search of dealers within 100 miles of my zip code. These are the results
46 John Deere
11 Kioti
7 Farmtrac
6 Montana and Mahindra
5 New Holland
3 Kubota
2 Branson
I hope Kioti is improving there dealerships. Looks like to me at least in my area that Kioti has a strong and growing network. I do believe they have very strong corporate support. My experience with the Kioti company has been positive. My dealer was another story.

albmn10 · May 13, 2005

Viking, maybe your missing the point here... Your in a room where everyone has done their homework in choosing a tractor...Just turned out to be Kioti..The ingredients for success are being able to adapt in a competitive market while continuing to make a quality product while keeping overhead to a minimum.Kioti has shown a continuing effort to improve there tractors and listen to the concerns of their customers.I have a CK30 and find it impressive, no thin skin here.. As others have mentioned, all the tractors today contain foreign parts, the Japanese and Koreans both make excellent diesel engines. A few years ago everyone laughed that the little Korean Hyundai cars and thought they were a fly by night compared to the big 3 US automakers ... Now several of their vehicles are rated number 1 by consumer reports for reliability,and that their quality is on par with the Japanese. It just so happens that 2 of the 3 big auto makers have seen their bond ratings fall to junk status,any company is vunerable.. Im sure someone like you said the same thing about hyundi. It seems like the South Koreans have a pretty good work ethic.. As far as your argument using the John Deere as only a few cents more a day over a 20 year period. Where i live the John Deere 3020 series tractors go for 21000+ here in NY while the Ck 30 prices at just under 16000. 5000 is a lot of money to pay for a name.Id put My Ck30 up against any make out there for performance and quality at 30hp and under. As i also said, all my local John Deere dealers have a arrogant attitude, thats what gets a company in trouble...

To20Chris · May 14, 2005

"Dead Money" is an irrelevant issue. You're saying that if I don't invest the money I save it has no value? How about if I buy a bigger, more capable tractor for the same money, or if I buy implements to make my purchase more useful? In my case, I got far more capability for my $ from Kioti than I could ever have gotten from the Kubotas I was looking at. Some folks like to spend their money by giving it to a tractor mfr in the hope that it will "buy up" their future resale value (which is a risk & not guaranteed), but I'd rather get a more effective machine for the purposes that I bought the tractor for in the first place.

As far as what companies will be viable in 20yrs, it isn’t predictable. I believe the fuel to manufacture, ship, and run our tractors will be way too expensive by then. Which of the Asian companies that make all of these tractors will be in the best shape then? It probably depends mainly on who comes out in the best position in the present maneuverings & wars to control the remaining oil. Then you have to wonder if all the low wage service-economy jobs in the US will generate enough of a market to attract the ones that are left to here, given the increased costs of manufacture and shipping. Don’t forget that some of these companies have much bigger sales in other markets. Japan has no resources of their own, so the success of their companies depends on who they ally themselves with, and who wins. China would be a better bet. It’s likely that most of these tractors we have will become lawn ornaments long before they wear out, but if there is enough of a market then someone will make the parts.

There - now I need to go adjust my tinfoil hat.

Dargo · May 14, 2005

( A few years ago everyone laughed that the little Korean Hyundai cars and thought they were a fly by night compared to the big 3 US automakers ... Now several of their vehicles are rated number 1 by consumer reports for reliability,and that their quality is on par with the Japanese.)

Very true. I work in and around the auto business. I don't know what the deal with Daewoo was, but Hyundai and Kia are no longer considered "the new Yugo". Not at all. Both companies are producing vehicles that compete quite well in the world (including US) markets. I don't see why the tractor market will be much different. I think Kioti could very well be on the exact same track as Hyundai and Kia.

I don't have any doubt that some of the "new" tractor brands will fade to black though. I won't name names (it would just be my speculation anyway), but some of these "bargain brands" that are riding the coat tails of serious companies are undoubtedly grabbing what they can now, and will just fold up their tent and disappear when things get a little tough. As someone else mentioned, do your homework. I think the "wanna be" companies will be obvious. There again, I've been wrong before. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MessickFarmEqu · May 14, 2005

( I did a search of dealers within 100 miles of my zip code. These are the results
46 John Deere
11 Kioti
7 Farmtrac
6 Montana and Mahindra
5 New Holland
3 Kubota
2 Branson
I hope Kioti is improving there dealerships. Looks like to me at least in my area that Kioti has a strong and growing network. I do believe they have very strong corporate support. My experience with the Kioti company has been positive. My dealer was another story. )

Some of those engines limit the number of results to keep you from calling every dealer on the east cost for pricing. IE.. there are at least 20-30 Kubota dealers and 10-20 New Holland. I am in SE PA and you can go to about 10 different places within 20 miles of me.

Donnyj · May 14, 2005

I always thought that you could not have the same brand within 50 miles of each other. At least that is what a Kioti dealer told me. 20 to 30 Kubota dealers within 100 mile radius sounds a little crowded. I know of only 3 Kubota dealers where I live. I guess the point was that Kioti dealers in my area are not scarce. Hopefully they will grow and be more available nationwide.

MessickFarmEqu · May 15, 2005

Oh yea, our Kubota reps will admit that at first they where too willing to hand out dealerships and some area's are over croweded. I can drive to 2 other dealers within about 20 minutes of our store, at least 6-7 within an hour. It does make it nice for interdealer transfers, but the competition is insane. Right now BX TLM packages are selling $400 below last years price even before the steal increases. There are about 1050 dealers in the US.