Is the ROPS really needed?

[MHarryE]

Unless the standard has changed since I retired, certification requires a destructive test. The frame is secured in a rigid mount (usually very rigid anchors through a thick concrete floor) and the ROPS is loaded with hydraulic cylinders in the side to side and fore-aft directions. Force applied is based on the maximum machine weight (which should be displayed on the ROPS certification plate). Once the design is certified the ROPS can be built by any shop as long as it meets the print specs and is welded by a certified welder. The steel must also be certified.

One thing - I have never checked an accident where the machine had a ROPS and the a ROPS had failed. I have visited several where the machine was equipped with a ROPS yet the victim was fatally injured. In every case the victim was not wearing a seat belt. Accident reconstruction experts are amazing in how they can determine what happened. I was involved in determining the cause of one such accident. All we had to go by were pictures the police had taken, the coroner's report, and the machine. Police report stated other crew members told them the victim often stepped on the clutch going down long, steep grades in order to get back to the chop quicker. In this case we estimated the machine reached 45 mph (max travel speed 24) when he lost control and was thrown from the machine. Victim died of a broken neck. Accident reconstruction specialist had me pace off the distance from where the machine crashed to where he thought the body landed. Sure enough there on the roadside were a couple covers from heart needles - the long needle syringes that can inject medication directly into the heart. The machine was intact. They had rolled it back upright and drove it off. Victim may have survived if he had been using his belt but at that speed a person can get whipped around pretty bad on a non-cab machine.

Yes, that victim was stupid, but in many of the cases something unexpected happens like a bank gives way or you hit something that blows a tire.

 

[TomSeller]

45 mph on a tractor, oh my God! Wow. I appreciate your professional comments on such a serious matter.

 

[yelbike]

Unless the standard has changed since I retired, certification requires a destructive test. The frame is secured in a rigid mount (usually very rigid anchors through a thick concrete floor) and the ROPS is loaded with hydraulic cylinders in the side to side and fore-aft directions. Force applied is based on the maximum machine weight (which should be displayed on the ROPS certification plate). Once the design is certified the ROPS can be built by any shop as long as it meets the print specs and is welded by a certified welder. The steel must also be certified.

One thing - I have never checked an accident where the machine had a ROPS and the a ROPS had failed. I have visited several where the machine was equipped with a ROPS yet the victim was fatally injured. In every case the victim was not wearing a seat belt. Accident reconstruction experts are amazing in how they can determine what happened. I was involved in determining the cause of one such accident. All we had to go by were pictures the police had taken, the coroner's report, and the machine. Police report stated other crew members told them the victim often stepped on the clutch going down long, steep grades in order to get back to the chop quicker. In this case we estimated the machine reached 45 mph (max travel speed 24) when he lost control and was thrown from the machine. Victim died of a broken neck. Accident reconstruction specialist had me pace off the distance from where the machine crashed to where he thought the body landed. Sure enough there on the roadside were a couple covers from heart needles - the long needle syringes that can inject medication directly into the heart. The machine was intact. They had rolled it back upright and drove it off. Victim may have survived if he had been using his belt but at that speed a person can get whipped around pretty bad on a non-cab machine.

Yes, that victim was stupid, but in many of the cases something unexpected happens like a bank gives way or you hit something that blows a tire.

I believe seat belts are still underestimated and under used. I personally use mine 98% and I'm on flat land, but I still have drainage ditches. I could not get my dad to wear his for the longest time, than one day i explained to mom the importance of the seat belt. Now he wears it! Lol. 66 years old and does NOT like to learn anything from his sons.

 

[tcartwri]

Personally I would rather have a cage that had much lower profile than the ridiculous tree snagging, door smashing loop behind my head.

 

[buickanddeere]

DB

Go to local racetracks and see all garage/hand built roll cages, with most of high quality. Joining multiple round tubes at various angles for high speed protection pretty much makes welding a simple ROPs tube child's play in comparison.

DB . There is no way that Bubba can walk up to any old tractor, a pile of steel and a welder then manufacture a certifiable rops.
A ROPS frame is one component of the total protective system. The mounting points on the tractor and the integrity of the entire chassis comes into play.
A rops can be made too stiff without some energy absorbson which will break a tractor axle or belhousing for example.
Unless the welder has been certified after sectioning and inspecting his welds. It doesn't matter who or where the welds are performed. Nor how pretty the welds appear on the surface.

 

[buickanddeere]

For those of you who think you can do what ever you want "because it only affects yourself" are the most deluded bunch of liars I've heard since the last White House press release. Your wreck , injuries, rescue, investigation, treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer.

 

[Kanook]

Years ago I enquired of my dealer what the implications would be if I shortened my ROPS on the B1700 that I owned then. I was informed that when it came trade-in time that the cost of returning the ROPS to original would need to be deducted from the trade in value as he could not resell it in the modified state due to legalities..I didn't proceed with the mod and got top dollar on the trade 16 years later for my B2650HSDC....BTW I never rolled it in the 16 years I had it but came darn close once.

 

[CobyRupert]

For those of you who think you can do what ever you want "because it only affects yourself" are the most deluded bunch of liars I've heard since the last White House press release. Your wreck , injuries, rescue, investigation, treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer.

Interesting line of logic. I've heard people use that argument for seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, and other "victimless" crimes, etc..
So by that logic, I assume you would support a law that everybody has to:
1) Brush their teeth 3 times a day. (I mean, gum disease can get serious and " treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer".)
2) Only eat healthy food. High fat and sugar foods should be outlawed. (Again, obesity diabetes and heart disease are serious killers and "treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer".)

If not please explain why?

 

[WaxMan]

I can't speak for him, but I think he was talking about people cutting and modifying their Roll Over Protection Systems without a care what happens to themselves or the person that buys the tractor.

Guys do you really want us to agree and advocate yeah, everyone cut weld and disable their Rops systems, Really! Talk about Logic.

Come on guys pick a fight about something you can win. This is like Good vs Evil, Batman vs the Villain
Answering some of your statements is like shooting fish in a barrel. Easier than that even.

I think most people do not want to get involve in an auguring match on line. Only a brave few venture on. All you guys that want to mess with the Rops, Show me your facts and figures how it's a bad idea to leave them intact.
I'll show you a world of Certifications, death, sorrow and loss of families to back up what I say, You guys got squat. Just talk and feeling thats all you got. It's too hard to lower the Rops.

Some of you guys with the make believe Rops are going to let your son or grandson drive the tractor one day.
Do you really want them to test your home made Hack Rop.
Hacked Rollover Guessing System it may or may not work , feeling lucky boy, take the tractor around the yard a bit.
I sure hope you guys never have to live with a loss like that Especially if it was something you did. How does one live with that?
Its one thing if its an older tractor and never had a rops but to remove or modify is another thing.

The title of the thread is the rops really needed
Is it needed or not? Tell us if it's NOT NEEDED and back it up. Lets see how far you get.

I think moving it along to Brushing your teeth and gum disease might be getting off the subject. Thats the best you guys got? Show us some facts. Stop trying to ignore the facts.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I think this post has gone full circle. I keep my rops folded won't go in shed and low hanging branches probably not real smart on my part but I don't use my seatbelt either. I guess could start a new thread on seatbelt use. If people are considering the safety aspects of this thread then maybe it has done some good. It has made me rethink some of the things I do. but beating this dead horse is not going to change some peoples minds they are entitled to there opinions and I respect that BE CAREFUL.

 

[DarkBlack]

I sure hope my post doesn't incite the wrath of the safety police, but I would like to get a few thoughts on removing the ROPS. Here is my situation; I have a Grand L with FEL that I wouldn't dream of removing the ROPS from. However, I recently acquired a BX2200 strictly for mowing. During routine maintenance this weekend, I even removed the lift arms, and toplink.

I'm finding the ROPS sure hits a lot of limbs mostly on fruit trees, and even creates a situation causing more trim work. Have also lost a number of peaches recently from the ROPS hitting them.


I know the BX is considered a tractor, and is equipped just like it's big brothers, but, on the other hand, it's not much larger than the JD riding mower I have, which did not even come with a ROPS.

In short, I'm thinking of taking it off. Give me a good reason why I shouldn't.

K

I never read your original post. If it were mine, I'd take off the rops for sure, and store it somewhere. Put it back on if you ever sell it.

 

[DarkBlack]

Waxman,

I'm sorry something in life made you so fearful.
There's plenty of people like me that live, to live. For example: I live in a state that has no helmet law. According to you, we helmetless bike riders are stupid.
I guess my whole state must be stupid by your opinion.
I spent a large part of my life building and driving race cars. Now that's dangerous and stupid. A smart person wouldn't take such a chance...
"And what about if one of your welds failed after you sold it?" yes...how to sleep at night?

You really need to mature to the point where you can see the difference between stupid and risk taking...the later being, what historically smart people have done, for life's excitement, and for innovation. In fact without risk taking, many of the major technologies we enjoy would never had happen.

Myself and other have pointed out dangers by using ROP's around trees. Maybe someone like me who's not afraid to make change ( unlike you ) will come up with a better device...who knows?

Done.

 

[buickanddeere]

Interesting line of logic. I've heard people use that argument for seat belt laws, motorcycle helmet laws, and other "victimless" crimes, etc..
So by that logic, I assume you would support a law that everybody has to:
1) Brush their teeth 3 times a day. (I mean, gum disease can get serious and " treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer".)
2) Only eat healthy food. High fat and sugar foods should be outlawed. (Again, obesity diabetes and heart disease are serious killers and "treatment and rehab if you survive are paid out by every other tax payer".)

If not please explain why?

There are countries that are charging smokers, the obese and other risk takers.
Do you have an issue with insurance companies that refuse to offer coverage on some persons due to their occupation such as crop dusting?
As for those actual conscious acts or lack of action that do cost . Yup bud, you should be out of pocket, not me.

 

[BlacknTan]

The Safety Police ...

ON STEROIDS!

 

[WaxMan]

I never read your original post. If it were mine, I'd take off the rops for sure, and store it somewhere. Put it back on if you ever sell it.

Hey how about that. Go back to my post days ago and I said the exact same thing you said above I think almost word for word. :drink:

Waxman,

I'm sorry something in life made you so fearful.
There's plenty of people like me that live, to live. For example: I live in a state that has no helmet law. According to you, we helmetless bike riders are stupid.
I guess my whole state must be stupid by your opinion.
I spent a large part of my life building and driving race cars. Now that's dangerous and stupid. A smart person wouldn't take such a chance...
"And what about if one of your welds failed after you sold it?" yes...how to sleep at night?

You really need to mature to the point where you can see the difference between stupid and risk taking...the later being, what historically smart people have done, for life's excitement, and for innovation. In fact without risk taking, many of the major technologies we enjoy would never had happen.

Myself and other have pointed out dangers by using ROP's around trees. Maybe someone like me who's not afraid to make change ( unlike you ) will come up with a better device...who knows?

Done.

Oh man this is soooo easy, why do you put yourself through this. Like fish in a barrel.

Darkblack Life made me Careful not Fearful

When you sell your bike the new owner buys or uses another helmet or doesn't use one at all. The helmet is separate from the bike.

When you cut, weld, change the certified Rops system and sell your tractor The Rops is part of the tractor. The new owner has no idea what you have done. The new owner is expecting the Rops to save his life as it was deigned and certified to do. The new owner didn't sign up for risk taken like you did in your race car. It's two very different things.

Because you drove race cars and took risks, it has nothing to do with Modifying a Rops on a tractor destroying the certification for all that follow for the life of the tractor.
And if you truly drove race cars all the safety devices would have had to be inspected and in complaance before they would even let you on the track.

You have to separate your feeling and your wishes to try and one up me on this subjuct and look at the big picture and the liability you can be opening yourself up to. You modify you own it. Your responsible for any deaths to follow. Which could have easily been avoided if someone didn't mess with it.

The only thing I said about stupid people was a Rops will save the life of a Stupid person or a Smart person, Rops does not discriminate. They just have to use the Rops and seat belt and 99% of the time their life will be saved. FACT. That is a pretty damm good record for someone to be playing with.

As for around trees, they make Rops that folds down. Or there are shops that certify the Rops they make. Or you can just take it off and reinstall it If you sell the tractor. Just like what you and I both agreed the original poster should do. I'm not against people doing what they want to themselves. I think if you go back my position is very clear. Not anything like what you're trying to make me out to be with what you said above.
Is your choice man. I'm not your keeper.

I thought you posted I was too extreme for you to argue with?
Now go back and think of something better, to come at me with.

Please read, watch video and read again.
This video right here Sums it up for me.
Nothing to do with risk takers, No need to take risks on a tractor.


Can anyone even imagine thats your boy on the tractor, You the Dad took the Rops off, how could you live with yourself after that.
One part your looking at your dead son. The other part your hugging him.
How much, would you pay, wish or give if you could be hugging him if he died. How much? No going back at that point. Life is precious.
Look at the fear and then relief in the father.
Which would you want to happen to you?

Then what do you need to do, to make the outcome happen the way you want.
You have a choice, right now, its yours to make, which outcome do you want.

 

[ultrarunner]

I went to an auction of logging equipment in WA State to see what I could find.

In the disclosures I found custom modified ROPS

Was not sure what had been done so I asked and found out the two bars from the front of the dozer to the canopy were added as was all the heavy mesh screen on the Deere 350 Dozer I was looking at.

In MY opinion the modifications made the dozer safer for tree work... of course it was a 35 year old machine...

Which begs the question what happens should someone need to repair a ROPS and parts are no longer carried... tractors last a very long time...

I would seem a colossal waste to toss or part out a tractor simply because a manufacturer certified piece of foreign made steel is no longer available...

 

[WaxMan]

I went to an auction of logging equipment in WA State to see what I could find.

In the disclosures I found custom modified ROPS

Was not sure what had been done so I asked and found out the two bars from the front of the dozer to the canopy were added as was all the heavy mesh screen on the Deere 350 Dozer I was looking at.

In MY opinion the modifications made the dozer safer for tree work... of course it was a 35 year old machine...

Which begs the question what happens should someone need to repair a ROPS and parts are no longer carried... tractors last a very long time...

I would seem a colossal waste to toss or part out a tractor simply because a manufacturer certified piece of foreign made steel is no longer available...

You will always be able to get Rops. Click Rops seatbelt Safety Program Put your tractor model and serial number in for any Older tractor and get your price.
Kubota Safety - Rollover Protective Structures

 

[yelbike]

Waxman, your right!

Are you trying convince us or yourself?

Now....again, YOUR RIGHT!

 

[ultrarunner]

You will always be able to get Rops. Click Rops seatbelt Safety Program Put your tractor model and serial number in for any Older tractor and get your price.
Kubota Safety - Rollover Protective Structures

Thanks for the link... good information.

I went and checked it out and then clicked on a grey market Kubota link and found this:

These "gray market" units are different in several important respects from the tractors that Kubota makes for the United States, and which Kubota Tractor Corporation sells in the United States. These tractors are not ordinarily equipped with important safety equipment such as ROPS and seatbelt, PTO shield, safety decals, or operator's manual

Kubota Tractor Corporation - GrayMarket Find Out

Kind of makes me wonder why safety is not universal???

 

[k0ua]

Kind of makes me wonder why safety is not universal???

Safety is not a concern in many regions in the world.. Case in point, some Russian military weapons are almost as dangerous to the end user as the intended target.. RPG7 if not carried muzzle up, can have the rocket fall out and kill the user and all nearby. The obvious answer to the problem is "don't do that" But still American weapons usually will incorporate safety features upon introduction, or if deficits are found then a rework/redesign is called for. Russian weapons, not so much.