Is there a Kubota diesel to avoid?

[Hay Dude]

I don’t like that cats in the Chevy medium duties. That’s why I bought the Ford. I’ve got a 6500 now with a 366 that’s been a good truck and pulls surprisingly strong but it gets 4 mpg.

4MPG.....wow....and I complain when my Ram drops to 10MPG when pulling a loaded trailer.

 

[Paystar]

Wow, the 7.3 IH built Powerstroke and the Cat C7 horrible engines? No wonder I don't take advice from the internet forums, LOL

 

[Hay Dude]

Wow, the 7.3 IH built Powerstroke and the Cat C7 horrible engines? No wonder I don't take advice from the internet forums, LOL

Horrible a little strong.
"Below average" may be more appropriate.
C-7 gets bad wrap because its parent bore and somewhat less reliable than their top shelf diesels.
Its always a slippery slope when someone like CAT, with a stellar reputation, decides to lower their standards and build a lesser quality engine.

 

[TMGT]

Wow, the 7.3 IH built Powerstroke and the Cat C7 horrible engines? No wonder I don't take advice from the internet forums, LOL

Guess it depends on your experiences, I worked on professionally, owned and operated a lot of light/med duty diesel engines.
I use to like the 7.3, they made me lots of money as a tech! But they are kinda turds and not as exceptional as everyone seems to think. Compared to the GM/Detroit 6.2/6.5 of the era the 7.3 were fantastic but I would have to give the Cummins the top spot of those 3.

The smaller CAT's aren't bad, but they are way overhyped to me, costly and a bit of a maintence hog. Cat rode its name and unfortunately some less then steller engines they made got ignored due to the name popularity IMO.

Having the opportunity to run almost identical trucks with different engines at the same time to the same mileage can give you a different perspective. Between 5 trucks we had a 5.9L common rail Cummins 230hp, a Cat 3116 215hp I believe, a '00 7.3L 235hp, a C7 230hp I belive, and a LB7 Duramax.

Out of all of them the Cummins was the most reliable and had the lowest operating cost, other people I knew that ran identical trucks backed up my experience with the Cummins.

Oh almost forgot about the IH 4700 I would occasionally use with the 444te, was slightly better then pickup 7.3 but still had gremlins that plagued it with power loss. And at 195hp it was already a bit of a dog.

 

[Garson]

I had an L275 Kubota for 21 years and loved it. I looked at a used MX5100 Kubota a few years ago at the dealership and they were giving it away with only 200 hours use. I agreed to buy it but only after reading up on it on the web. Three people said the same thing, "Do not buy this tractor". You can verify this by searching for "MX5100 problems". Loads and loads of problems.

 

[rScotty]

I had an L275 Kubota for 21 years and loved it. I looked at a used MX5100 Kubota a few years ago at the dealership and they were giving it away with only 200 hours use. I agreed to buy it but only after reading up on it on the web. Three people said the same thing, "Do not buy this tractor". You can verify this by searching for "MX5100 problems". Loads and loads of problems.

What kinds of problems?

I looked up "MX5100 problems" as you suggested, and there are lots of entries - most are thread drift about other tractors, but that's kind of TBN discussion style.

Ido see some MX5100 specific entries: one with a bad hood latch, one with a bad SSQA FEL latch, one with that needed a fuel filter changed, and one weird one that had pressure in the transmission. That's when I quit, but I just don't see what you did that sounds all that bad.

I'm curious what kind of problems are you seeing?
rScotty

 

[fishdrivel]

The Navistar VT365 (aka: Ford 6.0L diesel) was actually a fine engine. There are still plenty of them still around in School Buses, Ambulances, Wreckers, etc.

But Ford wanted more power in order to compete with generic motors (Isuzu, actually) and Dodge's Cummins. Both of which had more than their fair share of problems during that time. Believe it.

So Navistar boosted the VT365 beyond its abilities and bad things happened. If you can get a 6.0L Ford on the Cheap and bulletproof it, you've got a good engine. The 6.4L, OTOH, you wanna run from them.

I can see emissions requirements on Highway diesel engines. I would even encourage it to a degree. (Some better engineering would be of great benefit)

But it's the wrong people doing it. The EPA is a collection of eco-terrorists and old hippies thrown in with modern day anarchists that hate everything about us. fact

Which is why we have to put up with it on Tractors. Tractors aren't hurting anything. They're way out in the boonies. Any carbon (soot, etc) they might emit settles to the ground long before it reaches population centers.

And in case some adherrents to the EPA cult (which is what it is anymore. No science, cult) missed it, ALL life on Earth is based on carbon.

shock

I really enjoyed your post. I used to live in Californistan where the EPA wants methane collectors on cows ass's. I have my very, very liberal 88 yo mother in law living with me and I was trying bto explain why the EPA needs to be reigned in. I was wasting my time.
My friend at the EPA (oxymoron?) confided in me that the mercury they find in tuna is not found in the meat we eat. It is only found when they grind up the whole fish, guts, skin, and head. They do this to keep the dolphin huggers happy.

I expect that farmers will soon drive an electric tractor to their waterless farms where they'll grow soybeans for meatless burgers and drink water from refillable glass bottles......

 

[Paystar]

Guess it depends on your experiences, I worked on professionally, owned and operated a lot of light/med duty diesel engines.
I use to like the 7.3, they made me lots of money as a tech! But they are kinda turds and not as exceptional as everyone seems to think. Compared to the GM/Detroit 6.2/6.5 of the era the 7.3 were fantastic but I would have to give the Cummins the top spot of those 3.

The smaller CAT's aren't bad, but they are way overhyped to me, costly and a bit of a maintence hog. Cat rode its name and unfortunately some less then steller engines they made got ignored due to the name popularity IMO.

Having the opportunity to run almost identical trucks with different engines at the same time to the same mileage can give you a different perspective. Between 5 trucks we had a 5.9L common rail Cummins 230hp, a Cat 3116 215hp I believe, a '00 7.3L 235hp, a C7 230hp I belive, and a LB7 Duramax.

Out of all of them the Cummins was the most reliable and had the lowest operating cost, other people I knew that ran identical trucks backed up my experience with the Cummins.

Oh almost forgot about the IH 4700 I would occasionally use with the 444te, was slightly better then pickup 7.3 but still had gremlins that plagued it with power loss. And at 195hp it was already a bit of a dog.

OK TMGT. In this context I can agree with you and Hay Dude. Obviously the old 5.9 Cummins was the most reliable of all. I won't argue that, or the Cat C7 not being the best Cat design. But they weren't horrible, and the 7.3 Powerstroke was by far the very best diesel offered in a Ford pickup. No, it doesn't have the horsepower or torque of the latest models, but it was reliable and easy on fuel. But the HEUI injection was more complex and harder to modify (at the time) than the others to get big power.
And owning and working all of them, I can also say in my experiences the Ford Powerstrokes in STOCK form got better fuel mileage and had more power than any Cummins 5.9 or 6.7. But obviously with modifications nothing can beat the Cummins for power. Just look at any sled pulling competition.
When I had pickups delivering travel trailers across the country I got rid of the Ram Cummins and went Ford Powerstroke because the Cummins couldn't even come close in fuel mileage.
Another point to note......the International versions in their medium duty trucks seemed to be FAR more reliable than the Ford versions in their pickups.

 

[RickB]

I never heard too many guys pan a 7.3 Powerstroke. Now if you want to compare it to something built 15 or 20 years later then you're just wasting everyone's time. My all time fuel hog was a 72 IH Fleetstar with a 549 gasser and 5&2. Averaged about 5 mpg.

 

[TMGT]

OK TMGT. In this context I can agree with you and Hay Dude. Obviously the old 5.9 Cummins was the most reliable of all. I won't argue that, or the Cat C7 not being the best Cat design. But they weren't horrible, and the 7.3 Powerstroke was by far the very best diesel offered in a Ford pickup. No, it doesn't have the horsepower or torque of the latest models, but it was reliable and easy on fuel. But the HEUI injection was more complex and harder to modify (at the time) than the others to get big power.
And owning and working all of them, I can also say in my experiences the Ford Powerstrokes in STOCK form got better fuel mileage and had more power than any Cummins 5.9 or 6.7. But obviously with modifications nothing can beat the Cummins for power. Just look at any sled pulling competition.
When I had pickups delivering travel trailers across the country I got rid of the Ram Cummins and went Ford Powerstroke because the Cummins couldn't even come close in fuel mileage.
Another point to note......the International versions in their medium duty trucks seemed to be FAR more reliable than the Ford versions in their pickups.

Ok i will admit horrible wasn't the best descriptor, maybe very disappointing would be better. For something with the CAT name and that seems to look.good on paper, it was a let down in multiple areas.

Are you talking similar era 7.3 ps and 5.9 cummins? Typically the Cummins would get better mileage and pull better for us, now this was in medium duty applications, but pickup versions seemed to have similar results. To get the 7.3 to pull as well required a tunner, and then the mileage dropped quite a bit under load.

The HPOP on the Ford pickup versions of the 7.3 were completely different from the T444e, the IH versions were definitely more reliable but also at lower power levels.

I have a college friend that worked for IH in the diesel engine development side, he wasn't there during the 7.3 and 6.0 era though and worked mostly with the OTR stuff.
From what I've seen and been told, most of the problems with the 6.0 and 6.4 were Ford induced due to them wanting to fight the HP wars.

Not to say there wasn't weaknesses in the designs, but Ford really showcased them!

 

[Paystar]

It was 2007's when I ran 5.9 Ram and 6.0 Powerstroke Ford's at same time. Pre DPF era, only EGR and catalytic converters on both brands. The Cummins averaged 15.5 US MPG empty/13 loaded. Same runs the Ford's averaged 20 empty, 15 pulling. And I know the old 7.3 Powerstroke (I can't remember what year it was) was even better yet on fuel.
And the 6.0 PS....I never had issues with them (and still have friends running them that had zero failures except the odd injector) UNTIL I programmed them for more power. Then they blew up immediately, LOL
I had lots of experience paying Ford dealer $4400 for a stock head gasket replacement and $6000 to stud and bulletproof them.
My most recent F550 lost it's original 6.0 engine so i replaced it with one from a friends truck that got wrecked. he had 20 grand into it. New heads, turbo, Bulletproof brand oil and EGR coolers, blue spring kit, studded, etc........but I put it back to stock power tune and left it there. Tired of playing that game.

I just sold that truck and replaced it with a Kubota RTV-X1100C with a Boss vee plow. And bought a new 5.0 gas F150. All the truck I need for what I have to pull now. All my tractors are at the 3500 pound and less range.
Don't even have big trucks any more. Emission motors cured me of that trade, LOL

 

[Hay Dude]

Once I DROVE a 5.9L in a Dodge pickup and TOWED with it, I could see what all the fuss was about. It wasn’t fast, but man it pulled, with an unbeatable linear torque curve.
The stock Powerstroke was faster, but the torque curve was “peakier” Thant the stock 5.9L.

 

[Paystar]

Only thing I hate about the Cummins is they sound horrible. especially when guy straight pipe them.
Whereas an ISX straight piped sounds awesome, the little ones sound sick.
Nothing beats the sound of a V8.

They sure are making a killing with that 5.9/6.7 Cummins though. It's in everything now, from the Kubota M8 to now even Hino and Freightliner have made it standard in their mediums.
When did you ever think you would see Hino(Toyota) and Freightliner (Detroit DD5/DD8) give up on their own engines and go Cummins.
Even the Paccar PX6 and PX8 are Cummins engines.

 

[TMGT]

Once I DROVE a 5.9L in a Dodge pickup and TOWED with it, I could see what all the fuss was about. It wasn’t fast, but man it pulled, with an unbeatable linear torque curve.
The stock Powerstroke was faster, but the torque curve was “peakier” Thant the stock 5.9L.

We always use to joke about the 6.0 being more of a "hot rod" tuned engine.
If you've never driven the 5.9 common rail in the medium duty like a 650, its a completely different animal then the pickup version, from sound to how they drive.

 

[Paystar]

I've currently been driving an International MV (Durastar) with the 6.7 Cummins. I got a job operating equipment in a mine last year when I decided I had enough of the trucking industry after 36 years.
Don't even want to drive any more, but since I'm the guy with a license, I've been having to train new drivers on the mines van truck.
I does alright.

 

[TMGT]

Only thing I hate about the Cummins is they sound horrible. especially when guy straight pipe them.
Whereas an ISX straight piped sounds awesome, the little ones sound sick.
Nothing beats the sound of a V8.

They sure are making a killing with that 5.9/6.7 Cummins though. It's in everything now, from the Kubota M8 to now even Hino and Freightliner have made it standard in their mediums.
When did you ever think you would see Hino(Toyota) and Freightliner (Detroit DD5/DD8) give up on their own engines and go Cummins.
Even the Paccar PX6 and PX8 are Cummins engines.

If they sound sick then they probably are, all the straight piped 5.9/6.7 I'm familiar with sound similar to the larger engines, just slightly quieter.

The only "V" type diesels I really liked the sound of were the old 2stroke Detroits!

 

[Paystar]

If they sound sick then they probably are, all the straight piped 5.9/6.7 I'm familiar with sound similar to the larger engines, just slightly quieter.

The only "V" type diesels I really liked the sound of were the old 2stroke Detroits!

I just don't like that drone. I do like straight piped class 8 diesels though.

 

[TMGT]

I just don't like that drone. I do like straight piped class 8 diesels though.

Never had a drone issue, my 6.7 is straight piped (from convenience as the original tailpipe rusted and was removed).
I have found that exhaust pipe diameter has a lot to do with it. Seems the larger pipes like 5" don't sound as good as 4in to me.

 

[Hay Dude]

My factory 6.7 sounds great, but I think the older 5.9s sounded nicer.
I’m looking at a truck with a L-9 Cummins right now.

 

[Username Taken]

Never had a drone issue, my 6.7 is straight piped (from convenience as the original tailpipe rusted and was removed).
I have found that exhaust pipe diameter has a lot to do with it. Seems the larger pipes like 5" don't sound as good as 4in to me.

Yeah, I hate when they rust through like that.

I was told that the 4" was more likely to drone at highway speed which is why I went with the 5"..... Don't know if that's true or not.

The 4" is sorta like higher-pitched, the 5" rumbles. Sounds like a piece of heavy eqpment. Kinda. Sorta.

I couldn't tell you the difference between a 4'' and a 5'' as I've never owned one with the 4" exhaust. Mine is turbo-back with a Flo Pro Muffler.

It will 'talk' to you