Iseki engines

[retired007]

Not familiar with these engines. Any info would be helpful. Looking at the compact tractors and saw these engines are in the Massey compacts.

 

[mguitas]

I think it's a good engine, never gave me a trouble.

 

[irvingj]

Likewise. Now have close to 800 hrs on my GC 2310, and the engine still runs very well; have had some issues with the tractor, but so far no problems with the engine at all.

 

[plowhog]

I had the same question before purchasing a Massey GC1710. I did some research and found Iseki has a very good reputation for engines. I have 140 hrs on my tractor now-- no problems.

 

[atsah]

They are no better or worse than a Yanmar or Kubota. All about the same..

 

[JWR]

They are no better or worse than a Yanmar or Kubota. All about the same..

Probably quite true. A little web chasing reveals that Iseki is the 3rd largest AG equipment mfr in Japan. Also that AGCO sells blue Iseki-branded tractors up to 60 HP in Australia and New Zealand. Both 3 and 4 cyl engines. My first thought is that in most if not all of these tractor manufacturers, the engine is the LEAST of your worries and you are far more likely to have whatever problems you have elsewhere, not with the engine. I've had Kubota, Yanmar and Perkins engines on various tractors, had MANY problems (at least a few on every brand) and NEVER had an engine problem, ever. I think all the mfrs know that the engines in their products have to be "good" otherwise they will soon be out of business. And they do adequate QC accordingly. Same as the auto industry. I cannot say the same for QC on the rest of the tractor.

 

[atsah]

Probably quite true. A little web chasing reveals that Iseki is the 3rd largest AG equipment mfr in Japan. Also that AGCO sells blue Iseki-branded tractors up to 60 HP in Australia and New Zealand. Both 3 and 4 cyl engines. My first thought is that in most if not all of these tractor manufacturers, the engine is the LEAST of your worries and you are far more likely to have whatever problems you have elsewhere, not with the engine. I've had Kubota, Yanmar and Perkins engines on various tractors, had MANY problems (at least a few on every brand) and NEVER had an engine problem, ever. I think all the mfrs know that the engines in their products have to be "good" otherwise they will soon be out of business. And they do adequate QC accordingly. Same as the auto industry. I cannot say the same for QC on the rest of the tractor.

Agreed..

 

[AxleHub]

Not familiar with these engines. Any info would be helpful. Looking at the compact tractors and saw these engines are in the Massey compacts.

Retired,

There are 3 different categories I consider in a company that builds engines.

1. Category 1 is an engine builder who has supplied engines to several manufacturers.

2. Category 2 is a engine builder who has supplied engines to major manufacturers for a period of at least 20 years or longer and with great success enough that the manufacturers wold like to continue the partnership..

3. Category 3 are engine builders who full fill cat 1 and cat 2 but also design and actually build tractors that their engines go into and have been doing it for a lengthy period. Yanmar, Kubota, and Iseki all meet that standard. Many others may be cat 1 or almost a cat 2 but many common names don't meet this category 3 level.

One other interesting point is that ALL THREE brands I mentioned build non-standard features in their designs that happen to be "standard" in that group of three. An example is all three build scuts with front direction engine cooling with others don't. I consider such issues as this quite important also. A more efficient cooling system tends to make for longer term engine durability.

 

[JWR]

Retired,

There are 3 different categories I consider in a company that builds engines. ... A more efficient cooling system tends to make for longer term engine durability.

I think that's good logic Axlehub and agree almost completely. I have a different view of one topic which is cooling. I have a BX2200 which I've used for 16 years, have bought 2 others (used) as a service to other family members, etc. and I firmly believe there is a cooling design problem with the BX series. All these machines have the same issue about cooling. By the way I also have two B2150 4 cyl non-BX tractors that have NONE of this disease whatsoever. All the other tractors I ever owned (Deere, Massey Harris, Massey Ferg) had huge overkill in cooling capacity.

The problem is this: the BX series tractors, operated for longer periods of time in hot outside air temps (90's and more) while pulling a significant load, (like that of a 60 inch MMM deck mowing grass without stopping for an hour or two) will get hot. Period. Mine runs at the top end of the black range very near red under those conditions and always has -- that is with all the due diligence of cleaning the screen with compressed air, back blowing the radiator, cleaning the external shroud around the battery that lets cooling air in, etc.The slightest overlooking of care and it will go into the red under these conditions. These little buggers just get hotter than they SHOULD. Every once in a while one gets out of hand requiring remedial attention (there have been several TBN threads about it.) All the discussion to date contains a lot of speculation, the usual due diligence described above, etc. but NONE that I have ever seen get to the bottom of the problem and NONE have identified the real cause.

By process of elimination I feel I know what the cause MUST BE -- namely too small a water pump. The radiator is way bigger than necessary for that size a little engine. The fan likewise. The air paths are overkill and adequate (if cleaned out religiously...) , etc. I would bet some cash that a larger capacity water pump will cure the marginal issue. And it is a MARGINAL issue -- one you can get by with, one you can live with "BUT it ain't right!" I've never taken the time (nor invested a dime) to find out if the slightly larger Kubota engines' water pumps will fit the BX engines. I'd love to try it if I could find one that fits.

 

[atsah]

My GC1705 has about the best cooling system I have seen on a tractor, with the radiator in the back and fan blowing around the engine forward works perfectly. Keeps the heat off the operator. My temp gauge stays at 1/4 of the range in 85F heat.. My 2305 would heat up to much if I worked it hard in high temps..

 

[AxleHub]

JWR,

Nice post. I'm a little surprised at the bx cooling issue, as both the Yanmar design (like the sc2400/2450 etc.) or the Massey GC1700's seem to not develop heat - period. In fact, the only way I can get the temp gauge on my GC1715 to go above the 1/4 temp level is to not clean the screen for quite some time.

It always seemed the bx radiator etc. was ample in size - but is there some type of spot where flow restriction might occur? (like in a pipe turn entering into the radiator, or some "buildup" in the radiator?) Is there a pressure test on the cooling system that would indicate resistance buildup compared to the water pump test for pressure/flow ? Your thought that the pump might be a little light on flow pressure would cause your description - but it would seem that Kubota over a 15 to 20 year timeframe would have had too many complaints develop that they would have switched in a slightly larger flow pump. However if there is a restriction point - then a slightly larger pump would likely not correct it.

Because it seems that Iseki, Yanmar, and Kubota all share an appreciation for the numerous benefits of forward cooling in the 18 hp to 25 hp 3 cylinder diesel engines - I would think it would show up enough in competitive issues for Kubota to have seen and solved the problem. As Atsah was commenting with his gc1705 - I was actually a little concerned that somethg was wrong with my unit last year when it was 100 degrees outside and I was mowing for 4 or 5 hours with my mulching deck (which creates more load than a normal mowing deck) - and it didn't even move the needle.

 

[JWR]

JWR,

I'm a little surprised at the bx cooling issue, .... getting the guage up to the 1/4 temp level is to not clean the screen for quite some time.

It always seemed the bx radiator etc. was ample - but is there some type of spot where flow restriction might occur? (like in a pipe turn entering into the radiator, or some "buildup" in the radiator?) Your thought that the pump might be a little light on flow pressure would cause your description - but it would seem that Kubota over a 15 to 20 year timeframe would have had too many complaints develop that they would have switched in a slightly larger flow pump. However if there is a restriction point - then a slightly larger pump would likely not correct it.

I would think it would show up enough in competitive issues for Kubota to have seen and solved the problem.

Good points. I never thought about a bend or a constriction someplace. I'll look. I flushed the cooling system a couple of years back but have no good way to tell if it is partially plugged. ALL of the BX machines I've worked with are/were used. Though mine only had 200 hours on it when we got it in 2002. If there is a partly clogged radiator, it must be with "all" of them ("all" in my case being the 3 BX I have worked on.) I am very puzzled, like you, that Kubota has done nothing about this in 20 plus years. It does not seem that I am doing anything unusual or neglecting the cooling system. Maybe because it never goes "over the top" and blows out the antifreeze that I know of (just gets into the red) that so many people never look further or ignore it. Still strange I think. They do run poorly when they get that hot -- even to the point of extensive use of the power steering starting to bog down the engine.

 

[TSO]

Very pleased with the Iseki engines I've had in my Iseki-built Massey machines. Never gave me one spec of problems, very reliable.

Iseki makes the whole machine, not just the engine...

 

[1bayouboy]

Is there a thermostat in the path of the water flow on the BX??? I wonder if that is the restriction point.

 

[AxleHub]

Is there a thermostat in the path of the water flow on the BX??? I wonder if that is the restriction point.

That's a question I can't answer. . . But a good one to consider.

Another good question is. . . has distilled water been used consistently for the radiator needs.? Here's why that is important. Let's say there has never been a tendency for the temp to rise. In that scenario it's unlikely there is a restriction point so iron or other buildup is not a big issue (though I'd still use distilled water). By if there is already a history of temp rising (for whatever reason) . . . . Water/fluid quality becomes a much bigger issue. Think of it like a creek or a river stream, any spot that shows flow restriction automatically become a collection apt for silt or leaves or branches. Same story in coming systems. And compounding the issue is if water is coming from a farm or country well, you can have non-solable and soluble iron or other minerals. Any of those is a problem. . but too often users think only in terms of water 'clarity".

Coming from our well we have iron soluble water . . . taste great and clear as the glass it's in. . . . . but let that water stand in the glass for 4 days and the irony settles to the bottom and makes a believer of you to have a whole house filter right after the water line comes in the house.

 

[AxleHub]

Back to the Iseki engine topic, I really like how well Iseki designs the whole tractor to work with the engine. Iseki seems to prefer "robust" designs and I expect if they redo the 1500 series or at least the 1526, That they will add what looks like a slightly larger GC look and modernization but with the many features that the 1526 sports and some type of color and seat updates too.

Personally, I think the 1500 series could be no more than 1 or 2 sizes much like the starting kubota B series models offer. Would be a smoother transition for many would be buyers without the gap that the 1700 series creates. Jmho

 

[charlton289]

My 1705 cooling is very good I mow about 4 acres every week and with the temperature in the 90's it never gets to the first line as long as I keep an eye on the screen but it still doesn't get the that hot to worry about I just let it cool down before I shut her down at the end of the day.

 

[Phillip w]

My little mf 1531 had an iseki engine. While it definitely was no power house, it seemed to be a good little reliable engine. It did tend to run a little hot if working it hard in summer heat. It also would not start in cold weather. ??? Could of had posibbly a bad glow plugs or something, I don't know??? I junked the tractor, it was a POS. The engine and hydrosat were probably the only things on the tractor that were decent.

 

[TSO]

My little mf 1531 had an iseki engine. While it definitely was no power house, it seemed to be a good little reliable engine. It did tend to run a little hot if working it hard in summer heat. It also would not start in cold weather. ??? Could of had posibbly a bad glow plugs or something, I don't know??? I junked the tractor, it was a POS. The engine and hydrosat were probably the only things on the tractor that were decent.

I thought you were going to let me buy it from you when you were done with it...?

 

[Phillip w]

It needed ten thousand dollars worth of work done to it and we was in a hurry