J.J. Rear Remote Hyd. Return Line ??

[L3450]

Looking at installing a set of rear remotes on my Kubota L3450 to operate the hyd. chute cylinder on a recently purchased (used) snowblower . Have been searching the forum and think that I understand most of the plumbing needed but could still use some advice .
My tractor has the square hyd. block & fel with PB and if what i've been reading has soaked into my hard head I believe the setup goes like this.....................

Hyd. Line from PB port on loader valve to new single spool valve "In Port"

Hyd. lines from Work Ports to cyl. on snowblower &

Hyd line from Out Port on new valve to ?????

All that said with the Hyd. block on my tractor the 3ph has flow in and out via steel lines on tractor , so my question is ..........

" Can (or should) I run the return line from the new spool valve back to the hyd. block and Tee into the hyd. tank return there" ?? :confused2:

 

[J_J]

Where does the PB from the loader go now?

All valves should be in series.

The remote valve should be installed after the hyd block and before the 3pt.

The remote valve should have PB to connect to the 3pt. All OUT ports can tee together.

 

[ishiboo]

Think of an open center hydraulic system for what it is - a big loop. The hydraulic fluid goes through the pump and the loop constantly. When you activate a valve, the valve redirects the flow to the cylinder or other load, partially or fully blocking the flow from continuing to the next valve own the line.

You could do the same with a water pump and a garden hose. Loop the hose from the "out" back to the "in" and fill it with water, and you have an open center hydraulic system! Now add a tee valve to the hose - you now have a work port!

As JJ said, for each power beyond valve the connection is in series with this flow - in on the first valve to the hydraulic, power beyond to the "in" on the next valve.

The drain ports/case drains/etc are lower pressure, low-resistance fluid returns and can all connect to the same place, though if you try and operate something with a large drain requirement you might need to go directly to the tank - the drain connection on the hydraulic block is quite small.

Once you understand what all the terms/etc mean these systems are simple and easy to work with

 

[L3450]

Where does the PB from the loader go now?

All valves should be in series.

The remote valve should be installed after the hyd block and before the 3pt.

The remote valve should have PB to connect to the 3pt. All OUT ports can tee together.

PB from Loader valve is plugged / not used

Loader valve is fed from and returns to the aluminum hyd. block

I'm not sure how to reference a thread but " Hydraulic winch installation Kubota L2950 " by cytafex shows a diagram of the hyd. block and the line feeding the 3 ph .

3ph is fed via steel line from hyd. block and honestly I've not sorted out how / where it returns.

 

[L3450]

in this picture

number 130 is the pressure / feed line

number 060 is the return pipe

 

[L3450]

 

[L3450]

Where does the PB from the loader go now?

All valves should be in series.

The remote valve should be installed after the hyd block and before the 3pt.

The remote valve should have PB to connect to the 3pt. All OUT ports can tee together.

JJ or ishiboo

based on the pictures would I be able to feed a new valve from the loader PB port and run a return line from the new valve back to the hyd. block / Tee'ing the loader out port (hose) with the out port (hose) from the new valve with the Tee installed in the Hyd. Block where the loader valve is currently connected to the Hyd. Block ?

 

[Leejohn]

Look at your parts manual and look for the aux. remote valves near the end of the list. Check with your dealer and see if he can order 99063-93300, if so that well give you a way to hook a set of remotes. It goes right under your seat and you well save a lot of $$$$ in hose.

 

[Leejohn]

There might he a chance you can make it, I have made 2, one side has to be good and flat.

 

[J_J]

Something is not right about the way your FEL is plumbed.

This should be the path for your series flow.

Pump to hyd block, to FEL and FEL PB OUT back to hyd block, FEL OUT port to any return line, PB from hyd block to remote valve, remote valve PB out to 3pt, then to tank to tank.

 

[L3450]

Thanks Leejohn took a look and see what you mean although I haven't called my dealer to check availability it's worth checking into .

 

[L3450]

Something is not right about the way your FEL is plumbed.

This should be the path for your series flow.

Pump to hyd block, to FEL and FEL PB OUT back to hyd block, FEL OUT port to any return line, PB from hyd block to remote valve, remote valve PB out to 3pt, then to tank to tank.

Hence my confusion JJ , dealer installed Hardy Loader when I purchased the tractor 6 years ago and everything works as it should . Would never have been concerned except for wanting to install rear remotes .

 

[Leejohn]

To check if loader is plumbed right all you have to do is turn the screwdriver slot in the 2nd picture and it well shut off the loader and the 3pt well be the only thing working. Turn it back then both well work, if it wasn't right you would of found that out long time ago.

 

[ishiboo]

Something is not right about the way your FEL is plumbed.

This should be the path for your series flow.

Pump to hyd block, to FEL and FEL PB OUT back to hyd block, FEL OUT port to any return line, PB from hyd block to remote valve, remote valve PB out to 3pt, then to tank to tank.

My hydraulic block simply has an in/out/drain. When I attach my post pounder, I attach it between the loader valve's power beyond port and the in on the hydraulic block, which then feeds the 3-point. With nothing attached, turning the screw provides power to the 3-point and bypasses the in/out ports. (The fittings and hoses on the hydraulic block/loader valve Kubota brings out to 3/8 pipe thread, so I replaced the Kubota proprietary couplers with regular ISO couplers.)

The L3450 is the same vintage as my L3650 and shares many parts, guessing his hydraulic block is the same.

 

[ishiboo]

L3450, I think you misunderstood. You have the same hydraulic block as I do there are 3 lines that feed the loader, two from the "side" facing you when you're looking at it, and one from the front that Kubota connects with a 90 degree fitting to point towards you. That plug you mention is normal.

Do what I did - convert your two loader connections to ISO ag couplers (3/8). When you hook up the remote, hook it in series so it's "in" is the power beyond from the loader you can identify this because it connects to the "in" on the hydraulic block. Then, the power beyond port on your new valve connects to the "in" on the hydraulic block. Drain if you need it can be teed in to the return on the front of that valve or run to either of the two 3/4 pipe thread plugs in the transmission or above the 3-point top-link. You could also cut the hard lines and add a fitting, but it's unnecessary.

 

[ishiboo]

Here's a quick edit which shows the factory loader valve, and then the setup with the new remote valve added. A two spool valve is not much more than a single, so I'd get a 2-spool valve and plug the ports until you need it. (Or if you don't mind, plumb it now!)

Factory loader valve:



New setup, your new lines are in color:



Note the green line tees to the existing black line, you can do this with simple pipe fittings. Or as I mentioned you can bring it to one of the two red-capped fill ports on the transmission/rear housing, however the rear one has a vent you'll need to replicate if you go that route.

Hope this helps.

 

[J_J]

Although you say that everything works as installed by the dealer, it can work that way, but is not good practice to feed the next valve from the OUT port of the loader valve.

On most loaders, there are three lines going to the loader, IN, OUT/return, and PB OUT, and all three come back to the hyd block.

Standard hyd practice is to run all OUT ports to a tank line.

It appears that someone was lazy or did not know about the PB or did not have the PB part necessary to do the job correctly.

Most return /OUT ports are limited to about 500 psi back pressure, and the way you say it is plumbed, it will see above 500 psi. I would say that you are lucky so far.

I would suggest that if the loader valve is ever damaged from the back pressure, that the dealer owes you a new valve.

The OUT port is designed to dump cyl expended fluid and not the pump flow.

If I am wrong on this, then so be it, but I don't think so.

 

[ishiboo]

Although you say that everything works as installed by the dealer, it can work that way, but is not good practice to feed the next valve from the OUT port of the loader valve.

On most loaders, there are three lines going to the loader, IN, OUT/return, and PB OUT, and all three come back to the hyd block.

Standard hyd practice is to run all OUT ports to a tank line.

It appears that someone was lazy or did not know about the PB or did not have the PB part necessary to do the job correctly.

Most return /OUT ports are limited to about 500 psi back pressure, and the way you say it is plumbed, it will see above 500 psi. I would say that you are lucky so far.

I would suggest that if the loader valve is ever damaged from the back pressure, that the dealer owes you a new valve.

The OUT port is designed to dump cyl expended fluid and not the pump flow.

If I am wrong on this, then so be it, but I don't think so.

I believe as long as you do not have any "gravity down" style loaders, there are loader valves which have only an IN and POWER BEYOND. Because the loader cylinders are all dual-acting, when you apply pressure in one direction, that pressure comes back from the other side of the cylinder and out the POWER BEYOND when in operation.

If it's a valve expecting a drain which is connected to the power beyond, that's definitely wrong, but I don't think that's how it's setup. My guess is it has all 3 hoses and he just thinks it doesn't as that port facing the right side front tire always has a plug in it.

 

[J_J]

Not true on the cyl fluid coming through the PB port.

The PB port is designed for high pressure and the OUT port is not.

When the PB sleeve or screw is installed, the fluid gallery is divided, so the cyl fluid flows through the OUT port, and pump fluid will pass through to the next valve.

If the PB port is not used, just a plug installed, the gallery is open so that all fluid will exit the OUT port,

If the OUT port is ever used for fluid flow, it is designed as the last valve in the hyd system so the fluid goes to tank, and therefore the valve does not need PB.

 

[ishiboo]

Not true on the cyl fluid coming through the PB port.

The PB port is designed for high pressure and the OUT port is not.

When the PB sleeve or screw is installed, the fluid gallery is divided, so the cyl fluid flows through the OUT port, and pump fluid will pass through to the next valve.

If the PB port is not used, just a plug installed, the gallery is open so that all fluid will exit the OUT port,

If the OUT port is ever used for fluid flow, it is designed as the last valve in the hyd system so the fluid goes to tank, and therefore the valve does not need PB.

I think you misread. I am not suggesting a valve with a power beyond and out port function like that, I am saying a hydraulic valve does not NEED an out IF it is designed to not need one.

When you apply 1500 PSI to move a cylinder, that cylinder also can do work expelling fluid from the other side of the piston, which instead of going to an open-flowing out port, can go right to the power beyond. Most valves are not set up this way though. My only point is it's theoretically possible for how he believes he is set up to be correct, but unlikely.