JD 1207 Haybine

[chriswheeler]

Looking at how we will harvest a small hay field we will put in next year. A small haybine looks attractive for the task. Wondering how large of a tractor would be required to run a small one like the JD 1207?? Would anyone here happen to have one or to know the answer?? Would prefer long term to cut and bale my own if we can.
Chris

 

[floridahay]

I don't know how much help i can be since I have never owned a mower conditioner but the ones that I have seen have required at least a 50 horse pto tractor to pull a small mower conditioner. In this area I don't know any hay growers that run moco's due to their cost and high maintenance. Everyone runs disc mowers or drum mowers. I run a PZ drum mower and love it. You can run a five foot drum or disc mower with a 35 to 40 horse tractor. I gave about 3200 for the drum mower and I think that size disc mower runs about 1500 or so more depending on the brand. I don't think you can buy any moco new for less than 10,000 or so. Most used ones will probably be requiring a good bit of work to get them in good shape unless you are lucky. From what I have read you do not gain significant drying time in grass hay with the moco if you use a hay tedder following the mower. I would definitely recomend a tedder,it cuts the curing time and helps to put up higher quality hay. Good luck!

 

[cowboydoc]

For a 1207 you'd probably want to be at 65 hp. Could get by with less if you had to but 65 hp would be a good fit for that unit mower conditioner.

I disagree with the high maintenance comment. We've got a couple older ones and the only maintenace is greasing them, cleaning them up and changing the mower blades every so often. All in all they are very hardy units.

 

[slowzuki]

We used a NH 489 this summer sort of, the conditioning rollers have delaminated and it was useless in the long late first cut. A friend with a JD discbine came and mowed at about 3 times faster than the haybine in best conditions.

The haybine ain't too bad, but when it is worn out, replacing wobble boxes, gear boxes and bearings can be a major pita. The NH 488's are a lot easier to work on than the 489.

The 489 is 9 ft wide and we used an IH 584 and Case/IH 585 to mow with (both 52 hp and 8000&5000lb respectively). No issues with weight or power even in the long stuff. We have some 15% grades to get to the fields so the weight of the tractor coming down was the most limiting factor to hold the mower back.

 

[chriswheeler]

I guess I should have given more info on what I'm trying to do. We have 3 acers that we would like to put into hay for our horses, small field, small field with tight turns. Because none of it will be for sale, strictly for our own use, want to keep the number of implements and investments small. The JD 1207 used looks like it can be had for under $1000. Rebuilding not a issue, I'm a machinist with a full shop at home. Don't want to have any equiptment like a tedder if it can be avoided for reasons of storage. Hopeing that the conditioner and the hot Nevada sun would take care of the proper drying. Baler I'd be looking at again for some of the same reasons would be a sidewinder, or a JD 14T, or a JD 24T. No good reason to stay with JD outside of local parts availability. Other things that will factor in is that the tractor I now have has 30 PTO HP. Might need a larger tractor to pull this off. Storage issues will limit me to having only 1 tractor. Speed in the field cutting or baleing shouldn't be a issue with this small of a field. Last thing I should consider would be if we end up with the other 5 acers to our south and plant that as well. Could be a better way to do this small acerage but I don't know what it might be at this point. Horse people tell me that horses prefer the "conditioned" hay. If that is the truth then cutting with a sickle bar is out. That is what brings me around to looking at a Mower/Conditioner about the size of a JD 1207. Any and all suggestions appreciated, thanks,
Chris

 

[cowboydoc]

Ok I agree if you're looking at something that is completely worn out. I guess I was thinking of something with some age but still had good mechanics. Anything that is worn out is going to be a major pain.

 

[cowboydoc]

Where do you live in Nevada? A tedder in NV is worthless. A tedder is useful in areas where it's high humidity, you're trying to beat the rain, etc. In your area it's hot, dry, NO humidity, and rarely rains. I question why you would even bother trying to do hay on 3 acres. 3 acres you'll maybe get a couple tons to the acre. By the time you figure your labor, fuel, and $ in machinery, depreciation, etc. you will never make that come out even. I'm not sure about hay in NV but all the good alfalfa you want can be had for $75/ton or less in Idaho. At those prices I don't see how you can even consider making your own hay unless it's just going to be a labor of love.

 

[art]

Chris in our area the biggest problem is the machine has moulded rubber rolls that the rubber comes off the same as New Holland machines. Tough to get the hay to dry with out it.. Many of the seven foot mower conditoners were only rated for thirty five horsepower. Depending on the tractor that you have it might get by.

 

[chriswheeler]

Cowboydoc makes many good points. Three cuts a year at about 2 ton per acre, 18 tons per season. One horse = about 3 1/2 ton per year. 4 horses = a little less than 15 ton. Price is almost right on the money for the local market at about $75 a ton. I guess I could buy feed for less than $1200 per year. I have 11 acre feet of water that came with the property yearly and it would be nice to use this. ( $ 80 worth of extra property taxes pays for it if you use it or not ) Also I could put the land into pasture and get the same ground cover effect as a hay field. Perhaps spending a couple of thousand on equipment to harvest and bale hay might not be a good investment. My math says that in a couple of years I should come close to breaking even. I know older equiptment will need some repairs, parts, cost of fuel, etc. Custom baleing in this area runs $35 per ton. At that rate it would cost as little as $630 for someone else to cut and bale. Not many will be interested in this small of a lot. Moisture isn't a problem, cut hay drys fast here. Location= Smith Valley NV. Still considering the options before we start shopping for equiptment. Thanks,
Chris

 

[Charolais]

I ran a 1217 for about 10 years. Which is about the same machine. I used a 574 IH which is 52 HP to pull the 1217. What I would be concerned with is the weight of the tractor. I feel sure I could have used something in the 40-45 HP range if the tractor was heavy enough. Where I live it's rolling hills. Any tractor under 5,000 lbs. and turning at the corners on hills may present a problem. Get the right swing on the conditioner in a turn and it'll slide the rear end of the tractor around when turning. Not a good feeling on a hill side.

Just my opinion. You may be on flat land and not have that problem.

 

[chriswheeler]

The land is almost flat. Old alfalfa field graded for flood irigation at a 1% grade.
Chris

 

[cowboydoc]

Chris,

If it's an old alfalfa field you are going to have to plant some other crop like wheat or corn for a year or two. If you follow alfalfa with alfalfa it won't grow.

 

[RickB]

I would try a 7 foot mo/co behind a 30 PTO HP tractor on the flat. I have run a 9' machine with a MF 135. I bet you get by OK. HP requirements are dictated by hay yield and ground speed. You can always shift down. Should also run a small capacity baler OK.

 

[chriswheeler]

cowboydoc,
I agree on the soil thing. We are going to have a soil test done this spring and see what it needs. Would like to plant this fall in Sept. or Oct. Corn or wheat doesn't do well here, not sure why. We see wind almost every afternoon to some degree. Common crops here is alfalfa, potatoes, onions, garlic and some others I havn't itentified yet. RickB, I guess that is what I would like to do. The JD 1207 is supposed to be a 7' cut, and I understand that is to small for someone who makes money this way. Hopeing that 7' cut will = less required HP and have less machine weight. Need to look at mo/co and see what might fit our needs. Object is keeping overall investment from becoming outragous. Being a city boy, havn't had a chance to get close to any of these, and don't know what would be required to properly power and safely pull one. It would be nice to find a spec. sheet on a 1207 for weights and requirements. I agree that once I get past the cut and condition issue, need to look at what might be the smallest square baler that might be somewhat easy to find and keep running. Input I have had so far says for price and function look at JD 14T ( older) and JD 24T ( a little newer ) Only thing I am sure of is there will be quite a bit of learning going on before we make any move to buy something. The worn out equipment issue Cowboydoc mentions will come into play somewhat. Think this might be a little less of a issue for a retired machinist that can cut gears in his garage with more time than money.
Chris

 

[Charolais]

I expect you can use the 1207 if the land is flat. If your hay is thick you may have to slow down a little for the HP of the tractor. But in normal hay it should be just fine. Just don't get in a position where the conditioner will be pushing the tractor.

The 1217 I had was a good machine. I used non-clog guards and it was great for downed hay. I had to replace a shaft in the wobble box. I figured that when I bought it as it was used and had a leak on the driven(input) shaft when I got it. I think I ran it 4 years before that replacement.

On bit of advice before you buy any conditioner. Make sure the rolls are not bent. If either roll is bent you'll be replacing bearings pretty regular.

The rolls are also timed if it's like the 1217 and I think it is. I've worked on a 1209 and the only difference was it's width and had bigger bearings. Your knowledge of gear work will come in handy there if it's worn enough that you can't get the rolls timed proper. The L shaped gear box has 3 gears in it. When they have worn enough you'll have to much slack in the rolls and then they'll be touching when turning with the crop going through. Won't be able to get that slop out with the timing plate then. That'll speed up bearing failure also. They are good machines but it's a must to have them timed proper.

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Horse people tell me that horses prefer the "conditioned" hay. If that is the truth then cutting with a sickle bar is out.

Chris )</font>

'Horse people' prefer conditioned hay. Horses just like fresh good hay. For your own horses, forget the conditioner for grass hay. If you are doing alfalfa, then the condioner makes _much_ better quality hay. Without condioining, the alfalfa leaves dry, the stem stays damp. By the time the stem is dry enough to bale, the leaves fall off any you are baling alfalfa stems only - good for bedding is all.

New conditioner rolls with the rubber on them run $1500 each. Any condioner without good rubber on the rolls is not fixable - realistically.

Your 30 hp tractor might have enough power to run a 7' on such a small flat area. I've run a 1209 with a 50 hp tractor, and the power was ok, the issue becomes weight of the tractor - the condioner wants to be the tail wagging the dog.

Also, mower conditioners & hay balers are miserable to run without live pto - more so if they are underpowered a bit. What does your tractor have?

Growing alfalfa is an art form, learn a lot before you try to plant any. A good stand is worth a lot, a poor one messes you up for 2 years - need to kill it, wait for it to lose the toxins, and replant again. Do it right the first time.

The 14T can work with your tractor for small plot (weight of tractor & live pto would be a concern). Many New Holland balers are also good, from #69 - 270 models would be modern design & use low power. I would stick to either JD or NH balers, they figured out knotters first, and have much better reputations.....

--->Paul

 

[chriswheeler]

We are trying to educate ourselves in this area and it looks like there will be much to learn. Rambler, we were planning on planting a alfalfa/grass mix, local recomended mix is 60/40. Nevada has a rather hot dry climate, but even so a conditioner has been recomended because of the alfalfa in the mix for the reasons you have stated. It is begining to sound like my idea isn't so bad, but the problem looks like the size and weight of the tractor will be. Perhaps I should start thinking about upsizeing the tractor 1000+ lbs and 15-20 HP. Think we will still plant next fall and pay a local outfit to custom bale for the first year or two, see how that works out. A even bigger tractor might open up some other options as well, but that to be considered when we get to that point. Does anyone know what a JD 1207 or 1217 might weigh??? Also what a 14T or a 24T might weigh. Appreciate all answers so far, just a city kid trying to get a education for this transition we are making. Looking forward to the move,
Chris

 

[tude]

14T - With PTO 2490 Lbs.
14T - With Engine 2725 Lbs.

 

[chriswheeler]

Thanks Tude,
Weights weren't far off what I'd guessed. What I hadn't considered though is " with engine" PTO HP would be out of the discussion and it would be a matter of being able to safely handle that much weight with a 3300 lb tractor. ( that is with loader ) Might have to give this further thought. Thanks again,
Chris

 

[tude]

The John Deere operator manuals from the 1950's are interesting. Instead of specifying a certain minimum amount of PTO horsepower, the 14T manual spec for power required states "John Deere Model "40" or Equivalent." The John Deere 40 tractor test rating was 17.16 drawbar HP and 21.45 belt HP with a weight of 3000 lbs.