JD4720 vs.Kubota M5040 vs. NH TC55DA

[bucmeister]

I have a 5300 JD MFWD with the 540 FEL and I would not bet much money on it lifting 2500 lbs on a set of forks. Sure it will lift a lot, but that much that far in front of the pins, I doubt. The point being I sure hope you are not disappointed lifting then handling it after it is lifted after you get the rig. Be sure to get some serious counter weight for the rearend when lifting that kind of weight.

 

[Tact]

Then why are you looking at the Deere 400CX loader? Its 2380 at the pivot pin and probably around 1700 at bucket center (I can't find the honest bucket center measurment on the website). Sounds like you need a utility tractor to get the capacity you really need.

Here are the specs per JD on the 400cx loader on a 4720:
Lift capacity @ pivot pin (max. ht.)........2378
Lift capacity @500mm ahead of pivot pin........2565
Lift capacity to 59 in.@ pivot pin............2691
Lift capacity to 59 in. @ 500mm ahead........2633

That's why I'm looking at this tractor and loader combination. Am I missing something? If so, someone please clue me in.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

http://www.deere.com/en_US/govsales/purchaseguide/2006PG/links/42_43.pdf
Neil is right I think, the numbers just don't add up, and could be a typo error.

Neil is right . Looks like a typo to me. No tractor lifts more at bucket center than it does at the pivot pin - you should see about a 30% drop. Thats what the numbers in the PDF are saying. Infact if you look at the column for the 400X (which specs within a few pounds) you'll find that the 500mm forward measurement is 1720lbs - right on with my estimate.

I'm not going to do a long stand on my soap box again, but it needs to said. If you look on Deere.com you see a nice big picture of a 4720 advertising that it will lift 2600lbs. This is simply not true and nothing but a theoritical travel height at the pivot pin where no real world load will ever sit. This tractor REALLY lifts approx 1700lbs in the bucket. I hope Tact reads this post before he buys a tractor thats not going to meet his minimum needs. He like many others have been confused and decieved by Deere's (and some other companies) fudging of the numbers to get a leg up on the competition.

 

[art]

It wasn't too many years ago one of the majors changed the way they rated their loaders and the other manufacturers were caught with what was precieved as lower rated loaders.

To many who bought those that were so high a rating were soon disappointed with the performance of these new high lbs ratings that couldn't lift any more then what the competition could, some had to trade off to get their work done. Some just kept them.

Marketing is a wonderful thing!

 

[Tact]

Thanks for the heads up, Neil. I'm definitely going to get some clarification on the #'s before I buy. Who would you call to get the straight scoop, JD????

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

You'll find on Kubota.com, in plain, easy to read english devoid of A SINGLE pivot pin, 59" travel, or other B.S. measurement - that the LA1153 loader thats used on the M5040-M7040 will lift an outstanding 2536lbs IN THE BUCKET. You won't need to dig though countless PDF files to find this accurate information either. Not only do we offer you this consumer friendly format, but we do it at the best price of any of the machines that you looked at. This is why Kubota has a 43% nationwide market share for all tractors under 100hp, and approaching 60% in some segments.

This message brought to you by your friendly (and kinda fired up ) Kubota Dealer.


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[Z-Michigan]

Neil is right . Looks like a typo to me. No tractor lifts more at bucket center than it does at the pivot pin - you should see about a 30% drop. Thats what the numbers in the PDF are saying. Infact if you look at the column for the 400X (which specs within a few pounds) you'll find that the 500mm forward measurement is 1720lbs - right on with my estimate.

Yes, I have to agree with this. I think there is a big typo in the Deere rating of the 400CX lift, for the same reason as noted. My 5105/522 FEL is a significantly bigger machine and lift to FULL HEIGHT at 19.7" forward is only 2100lbs. Now lift to a moderate height, like 59", is over 3000lbs. May or may not be useful for your intended uses.

The skidsteers have a lot more lift capacity and are generally limited by tipping load considerations rather than hydraulic power. If you are regularly lifting 2500lbs pallets, you will probably be unhappy with all of the tractors you mentioned. I should have said this sooner, sorry. If 2500lbs is a must, I would (again) look at the Kubota L48, which is more of a construction type machine and more heavy duty. Its loader lift rating is also just over 2500lbs but it has more hydraulic flow and will probably work better if routinely using the full lift.

EDIT: I finally looked at the PDF and it says clearly that the CX model has increased lift capacity for commercial use. I am still scratching my head to figure out how there would be more lift at 19.7" forward than at the pivot pins. Maybe the lift at pivot pins is underrated?? Or maybe there is some fancy design trick here that I don't understand. I would call JD to clarify, but if they confirm it then it sounds great.

 

[JasonL]

I really don't know whether JD's 400cx specs are right or not- but I probably would get the info from them or an owner rather than a dealer of another brand. This thread might help also. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/jd-owning-operating/96201-400x-vs-400cx-specs-question.html?highlight=400cx

 

[Z-Michigan]

You'll find on Kubota.com, in plain, easy to read english devoid of A SINGLE pivot pin, 59" travel, or other B.S. measurement - that the LA1153 loader thats used on the M5040-M7040 will lift an outstanding 2536lbs IN THE BUCKET. You won't need to dig though countless PDF files to find this accurate information either. Not only do we offer you this consumer friendly format, but we do it at the best price of any of the machines that you looked at. This is why Kubota has a 43% nationwide market share for all tractors under 100hp, and approaching 60% in some segments.

There definitely ARE errors on the Deere website - but I could spend several pages writing up all the errors and misleading claims I have found in Kubota's advertising material (both brochures and website). If I remember correctly the ratings on the loader for the MX5000, on the website, were all screwed up and blatantly wrong.

I think it's also interesting to note that Kubota doesn't rate the breakout force on the LA1153. Per some of the posters in the Kubota forums, it has very little breakout force. One owner of both an L48 and an M-series seemed pretty disappointed.

I also strongly disagree that lift to 59" is a useless measurement. I hardly ever lift anything to full height, and unless you're loading a 5-ton dump truck or lifting stuff to a second story, I don't think full height is used much. Lift to 59" is a good indication of what you can move if you simply want to pick something up and then set it down elsewhere at ground level. Very useful for moving pallets or boulders. Most loaders will have significantly more lift to a mid height (like 59") than to full height, but unless it's rated how will you know?

My two cents:
-with all specifications, you have to ask if the rating really makes sense. For instance, Deere had an error in rating the 3ph lift on a 5105 at nearly 5000lbs (which I believe has since been corrected). This doesn't make sense for the class of tractor it is. Accurate value is about 3300lbs.
-If your use requires the last pound or inch or whatever of a specification or else the tractor won't work for you, you definitely need a bigger tractor.

 

[BleedGreen]

Neil is right . Looks like a typo to me. No tractor lifts more at bucket center than it does at the pivot pin - you should see about a 30% drop. Thats what the numbers in the PDF are saying. Infact if you look at the column for the 400X (which specs within a few pounds) you'll find that the 500mm forward measurement is 1720lbs - right on with my estimate.

I'm not going to do a long stand on my soap box again, but it needs to said. If you look on Deere.com you see a nice big picture of a 4720 advertising that it will lift 2600lbs. This is simply not true and nothing but a theoritical travel height at the pivot pin where no real world load will ever sit. This tractor REALLY lifts approx 1700lbs in the bucket. I hope Tact reads this post before he buys a tractor thats not going to meet his minimum needs. He like many others have been confused and decieved by Deere's (and some other companies) fudging of the numbers to get a leg up on the competition.

The 400X and 400CX are not the same loaders. This has been brought up before, and everytime Neil says it is a typo, when it is not...

03-17-2007, 07:40 AM #6 (permalink)
Cidertom
Bronze Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Benton Co Oregon
Posts: 63 Re: 400x vs 400cx specs question
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Greetings:
I scratched my head about this as well. So did the dealer. Several calls and he wound up talking to the item manager. Yes it is as written. They didn't explain how, but did give some real world test results. It does have to do with the geometry of the self leveling. I think the linkage at the bucket puts the efffective pivot point out beyond the physical one. Your dealer can produce some nice lift vs height charts from the sales support site. Having bought one (on 4520) I tend to believe it after some real testing here. Pallet of 3-tab roofing so many packages at 46 lb per package and the forks picked it up ok.