JD4720 vs.Kubota M5040 vs. NH TC55DA

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So how come you never chimed in when I posted that I test drove a new Kubota L40 series tractor with a GST transmission that failed to operate properly in the dealer's lot. Sure scared me away from that. There's some real world experience for you...

But really, Kubota, Deere, and NH all make great rigs. You'll read it over and over again. You'll see most go for a tractor from the dealer they like best and/or they go for a tractor that they feel comfortable on.

Also, can we quit comparing tractors of different size!?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I don't mean to send this thread off in the wrong direction and imply that the companies that I represent are infallible and somehow holy. In case you missed it, there was a large amount of sarcasm in my post. In the interest of keeping this on topic can we just leave it at that and focus on the subject at hand.


BleedGreen... can you please explain to me the magical engineering that Deere has come up with thats allowing the 400CX to lift more weight at bucket center than it does at the pivot pin. I'm not engineer, but I did pass high school physics. (Again folks, more sarcasm here... this is my sense of humor showing) I sell alot of construction equipment with self leveling systems and none of them exibit this behavior.

I very well maybe wrong, I'm totally open to that. If its true I'd like to see somthing more scientific than someones subjective experience...

 

[IH3444]

Well I for one know that Neil is right about this. Another point I see is the tire size for R4s. The Deere is smaller than the TC55, and the front ply rating for the Deere R4 is only 6 ply, whereas the NH has 12x16.5 8 ply up front, instead of 10x16.5 6 ply up front. The Deere is more in line as the NH TC35/40/45 frame size, so the comparision to the TC55 is most likely not apples, to apples. More like apples, to a bigger orange.......If you can nail down the Deere at the price you said, you should buy it. It's a bargain, but in my travel to a tractor purchase the Deeres were alway more expensive. So I guess if you buy a Deere with a greater loader capacity listed than the NH, with smaller tires, with less tire load carrying capacity, then I guess this makes you a physics major? NOT!

 

[art]

The 400X and 400CX are not the same loaders. This has been brought up before, and everytime Neil says it is a typo, when it is not...

03-17-2007, 07:40 AM #6 (permalink)
Cidertom
Bronze Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Benton Co Oregon
Posts: 63 Re: 400x vs 400cx specs question
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Greetings:
I scratched my head about this as well. So did the dealer. Several calls and he wound up talking to the item manager. Yes it is as written. They didn't explain how, but did give some real world test results. It does have to do with the geometry of the self leveling. I think the linkage at the bucket puts the efffective pivot point out beyond the physical one. Your dealer can produce some nice lift vs height charts from the sales support site. Having bought one (on 4520) I tend to believe it after some real testing here. Pallet of 3-tab roofing so many packages at 46 lb per package and the forks picked it up ok.

Figuring the normal three bundles to the square and 12 sq per pallet that comes out to roughly 1700lbs.

 

[Tact]

Well........I just got back from the JD dealer after spending all morning going over the tractor, lift and operation. In the end and starting to go over the #'s, much to my surprise (not really) the #'s weren't the same as quoted. He said the price quoted was just for the tractor and not the loader and bucket. I repetitively asked about the entire package price as the tractor set several times yesterday and the price was still $23,900. He apologized for the confusion and said the 400cx loader was an additional $4695. After bickering back and forth he said the best he could do for the 4720, 400cx loader w/ heavy duty bucket, and adding a rear SCV is $28,815. I told him "no thanks" as this was not what he stated yesterday. Maybe it was just poor communication, but I asked him several times about the setup so there would be no misunderstandings. With the price he quoted I knew something just didn't sound right and it was too good to be true.
However, sitting next to the 4720 was a 4520, same tractor just 5 PTO HP less than the 4720. He then said he could make me a one time deal on the 4520 with the 400cx loader, HD bucket, and rear SCV for a total $26,495. Now I'm really confused, but I'm leaning towards that deal.

Pertaining to the lift capacity discrepancies, I spoke with the dealer rep and to the JD home office tech rep. who both stated that the #'s quoted in the brochure and one the website are correct. The design of the 400cx loader with the extra arm and mid pivot pins gives the loader different lifting leverage angles thus giving it greater lifting capabilities compared to the 400x loader and other similar loaders. I'm not an engineer and I somewhat understand what they are stating. Someone with that background might could make a better explanation.

What do you think now??????????????

 

[Z-Michigan]

Sorry to hear that you didn't get the deal of the century. Big question for you to ask yourself is whether this is an honest miscommunication or a bait and switch. If the former, I think either the 4520 or 4720 could do what you want with the 400CX loader, and the prices quoted sound decent. In fact, the 4520 quote is barely more than a 4320 quote I had two months ago with a 400X loader, so it would be pretty good.

However... I wouldn't do business with a dealer that I was unsure about, especially if it's a long drive from home. Be sure you like this dealer if you're going to buy from there.

I consider the whole issue of lift capacity for the 400CX to be resolved, unless someone buys one and shows it can't lift what it's rated for.

As has been noted many times, the three tractors are really in two different classes - the 4720 is definitely a large CUT, the M5040 is definitely a utility, and the TC55 is somewhere in between. Even a large CUT should do what you're looking for, and I know the 4x20 series is often used by professional landscapers, but for good and bad it is a CUT rather than a utility. Again, I think with a 400CX it is all you need, but just be aware this isn't totally apples to apples. It is kinda funny how the largest CUTs cost more than the entry utility tractors.

I was looking at all of these tractors two months ago and ended up with a JD 5105. But I don't need a full 2500lbs of FEL lift, and I was confronted with choosing between a great deal on a 5105 that was in stock vs. an OK deal on a M5040 that no dealer in Michigan had or expected to have til late March or April (they are finally in stock, five weeks after I took delivery of my 5105 and have already put 24 hours on it). If it were me, and despite the fact that I really, really like green, I would take another look at the M5040 with hydroshuttle and LA1153. Be aware that self-leveling is included on a 400CX and is an extra cost option on an LA1153, though. I would also price out a JD 5225 with 12x12 powerreverser and the 542 FEL, but I think that will be into the $30's.

 

[Tact]

I guess now the main thing I like when comparing the Kubota and the JD is the fact that the JD is a CUT. With my 16' gooseneck trailer I have a better chance of the JD fitting on it, even if I had to rest the bucket on the gooseneck when hauling a bush hog rotary cutter.
I don't know how much the self leveling option is on the Kubota loader.

I just checked on the self leveling.......$800

 

[mikeyd]

Let me throw my 2 cents worth in as someone who owns both a skidsteer (Bobcat) and a larger tractor with a FEL ( Kubota 5030 w/LA853 FEL).

First, do not expect anywhere near the bucket performance of a large tractor compared to a skidsteer. I would strongly advise that you rent or demo a Tractor with a FEL capable of lifting 2500lbs to max height and see how comfortable you feel. I have said it before on TBN and I will say it again, a FEL on a large Tractor (one capable of lifting 2500 lbs.) is next to useless, especially on a construction site with uneven ground, holes etc.

As I see it , part of the problem is that the tractor manufactuers all try to out do the other...just like whats been going on in this thread...JD can lift this much this high..Kubota can lift...... so much so that the buckets on the FEL's are so far out in front of the Tractor(to be able to brag about lift height) that with any kind of load in them they make the tractor so unstable and tippy to the point of being useless. Counter weight or not you would have to be a daredevil to try and safely move 2500lbs. on a Tractor w/ a FEL on any type of uneven ground. Futhermore, because the bucket is so far out front you have no idea where it is in relation to the task. I believe you will be very dissatisfied with this set up on a construction site especially coming from a skidsteer.

Ironically, the FEL's on the smaller units, like the BX23 are useful, simply because they are smaller and are not so far out in front. I have used my neighbors BX23 w/ FEL and it feels quite stable.

At most I use the bucket on my Kubota 5030 to move mulch, it is that useless. For any kind of real bucket work you cannot come close to the speed and stabilty of a skidsteer. Why not keep the skidsteer and buy a 45 hp tractor without the FEL or alot of bells and whistles.

 

[BillyP]

Let me throw my 2 cents worth in as someone who owns both a skidsteer (Bobcat) and a larger tractor with a FEL ( Kubota 5030 w/LA853 FEL).

First, do not expect anywhere near the bucket performance of a large tractor compared to a skidsteer. I would strongly advise that you rent or demo a Tractor with a FEL capable of lifting 2500lbs to max height and see how comfortable you feel. I have said it before on TBN and I will say it again, a FEL on a large Tractor (one capable of lifting 2500 lbs.) is next to useless, especially on a construction site with uneven ground, holes etc.

As I see it , part of the problem is that the tractor manufactuers all try to out do the other...just like whats been going on in this thread...JD can lift this much this high..Kubota can lift...... so much so that the buckets on the FEL's are so far out in front of the Tractor(to be able to brag about lift height) that with any kind of load in them they make the tractor so unstable and tippy to the point of being useless. Counter weight or not you would have to be a daredevil to try and safely move 2500lbs. on a Tractor w/ a FEL on any type of uneven ground. Futhermore, because the bucket is so far out front you have no idea where it is in relation to the task. I believe you will be very disatisfied with this set up on a constuction site especially coming from a skidsteer.

Ironically, the FEL's on the smaller units, like the BX23 are useful, simply because they are smaller and are not so far out in front. I have used my neighbors BX23 w/ FEL and it feels quite stable.

At most I use the bucket on my Kubota 5030 to move mulch, it is that useless. For any kind of real bucket work you cannot come close to the speed and stabilty of a skidsteer. Why not keep the skidsteer and buy a 45 hp tractor without the FEL or alot of bells and whistles.

I agree! Then start talking about pallet forks and it gets worse in a hurry.

 

[IH3444]

I figured it was a quote for only the 4720, and that the salesperson would try and get you to drive the machine, with the 400cx loader.You would have fallen inlove with it. The Deere is a very well thought through ergonomically tractor, and fits most people like a glove. The Kubota 5030 is a larger machine, as well as the NH TC55. For $29K you really should look at the Kubota 5030, or the NH TC55. If you are able to spend that much. The Deere 4520 lack of 5hp isn't going to affect you using the 400cx loader. Good luck, but I'm afraid that the dealer's credibility does come into question. I'm sure you stated very clear what you wanted, and he wanted you to come out and take a look, and drive.