Keeping out the idiots...of the air...

[MNBobcat]

archerm3:

As a pilot this thread is just nutz.

that sound is the sound of freedom.


Quote:
Do not take freedom for granted. The freedom you enjoy...someone has paid for...
Hehehe, except pilots who fly airplanes near anything anybody else owns...hehe


Do you have any idea of what you are mocking??? I repeat...Ignorance is not a virtue.

Certainly he has the "freedom" to fly. He also has an obligatation to do so in a responsible manner.

I have the freedom to live my life without being blatenly hassled. If this man just flew over once and landed the plane, I honestly don't think that I would have a problem. I wouldn't like it, but could live with it.

However, it is obvious that he is going out of his way to hassle me. He does not always touch the ground. When he does he takes off immediately and does it again. The weather is always fair, and he never leaves the plane on the field, as it is kept at the local sm. airport.

So the Freedom I mention in my sig. is something you obviously have no appreciation for...but even in that ignorance, you, and the pilot, both are able to enjoy the benefits of that freedom.

Sorta like an animal that suddenly runs across a meal that he had nothing to do with as far as procurring it. He could care less how or why it appeared as long as he is able to gobble it down, and fight off others.

I'm not going any further with these pissing posts. Post what you want...you are FREE to do so...

As I explained earlier, in your own words you approached this guy using terms like "invasion of privacy", "unsafe", "trespassing". You entitled this post, "keeping the idiots out of the air". You also said, "I don't want to loose this argument."

Read the words you used above...step back...and think about your attitude and how it affected how you came across when you talked to this guy. Those are all words of conflict. Think about it...


When you first meet a person and you use terminology like the above, you immediately escalate a conversation from a cordial discussion to one of conflict. His defenses are going to immediately go up. You are not going to get anywhere with him once you have put him into a defensive and irritated frame of mind. aka you came across as being a jerk to him. Might not have been your intent, but word choices can do that.

As you finally, very reasonably admitted, you could live with the 15 seconds of noise from the guy momentarily passing over your property when he is taking off or landing if its not constant and over and over again. Most good neighbors (and good people) can put up with a short annoyance. Especially when it means that those neighbors will reciprocate by being tolerant when you want to do something.

What you don't seem to understand is the reason its gotten worse is because you called the FAA and escalated the situation even further. So how do you suppose the guy elects to get back at you? By rubbing it in your face (flying over your house at full throttle) at every opportunity. He is within his legal rights to fly out of his airport and as the airport owner and pilot in command legally he can establish whatever pattern of approach he so chooses. So why not get back at you by irritating you if he can't get in trouble for it? He is acting like one would expect him to act when someone has ticked him off.

You really need to understand you created this situation and through your own making caused the situation to get worse. He wasn't intentionally trying to disturb your life. He probably didn't know it was bothering you.

Flying is no doubt his passion in life. He probably bought the land specifically to fly from. If you go after any person and try and destroy the one thing they love most in life, you are going to have a war on your hands that you would not believe.

I gave you excellent advice yesterday when I said you should go over and apologize to this guy. Tell him you would like to be friends and that you didn't mean to cause any trouble for him. Ask him how long he has been flying. Ask some questions about his plane. If you defuse the situation and remove some of the animosity you created between him and you....I am 100% certain the fellow would be willing to do everything he can to try and keep the noise and disturbance to a minimum.

Its either that, or you can choose a lot of unnecessary stress and financial expense trying to beat him into submission. It could take years and you would likely still lose.

I suggest taking the friendly approach and talk to him and I'll bet you find a compromise. Probably only take 15 minutes of your time, too.

 

[cowboy357]

Not to further Hijack the OP,s thread Hopefully . But I,m curious as there seems to be quite a few pilots on here that are very knowledgable .

The topic of noise level was brought up , As I had said in my earlier post I have at least a couple of cropdusters around here , at first they were quite annoying because they are so loud . but Once I got used to the fact they were only providing a needed service . I Quite enjoy watching their expertice & manuvers .

These Guys are really talanted & Barelly clear the hedge rows & get within what seems to me to be within 20 feet of the feilds when spraying , I can make out what the pilot looks like , Then Allmost straight up , turn around for another pass . They are really small single winged planes Almost look homebuilt but old . They look like they have some kind of straight pipes on them & really loud , but sound perty cool . Just wundering if There hotrodded up so They can do the fancy flyng & quick dives & straight up again , if that makes sense .

Anyway just wondering if anyone knows as I find it very interesting . Thanks Bob

 

[MJPetersen]

Cowboy, No they are probably not "hotrodded up" as that involves some complex paperwork and testing. However, they may be modified according to an existing approved mod. The exhaust system probably is not though. Crop dusters are made just for that. They are single seat special duty planes. Cessna's agtruck is one such bird. If they have been modified it is usually to go to a turboprop (jet engine with a propeller--it will have a long pointed nose) in order to get the greater power to weight ratio that it offers. These can be a bit loud, but they will only have one or at most 2 exhaust pipes 3-4 inches in diameter. The pipe can come out near the prop or back near the cowling depending on the engine. A crop duster makes alot of his noise with the prop. The low altitude and high weight demand that you move some air and that means spinning that chunk of aluminum.

Older cropdusters used the old radial engines, and while you can still get parts for the old Pratt and Wittneys it is getting harder. No american manuf still makes radials. These will have a short cowling but big and round. The exhaust from these can be just short stacks from each cylinder, but usually they have a collector ring and one or two exhaust pipes out the side or under the cowling. Here in Poland there still is a manufacturer that makes a radial. A 7 cylinder 350 hp (I think) for the STOL airplane "Wilga."

At any rate that is probably more info than you wanted.

Mike

 

[texasjohn]

Interesting thread.

People with facts

People with opinions

People with emotion

Some don't listen to the others.

Some do.

Topic can vary... approaches don't seem to.

IMHO, all that can be done is document all the facts (video/sound/writing), determine what rules or laws are being encroached or broken, find out who has jurisdiction, send documentation to all affected parties. Engage the newspaper and local TV station after details are known.... and, make sure your physical perimeter is hardened because some of the emotional and opinionated people will come after you in nasty ways... too bad, but that is the way it is.

 

[PBinWA]

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Make sure your wheel squeaks louder than his.

I had a neighbor that used to buzz my house on weekends. I informed him that it often startled me while I was cleaning my guns. He stopped.

A para-glider used to buzz my house so I just went out and filmed him (or pretended to) while talking and pointing hysterically on the phone. He stopped.

Remember, if you are going to fight with a pig you are going to need to get dirty . . . or something like that.

 

[rhett]

I liked the tall tree suggestion. If your property line is close enough, in a few years the runway over the house would possibly unusable. Plus you would have some pretty trees.

I googled "fast growing tall trees" and found this link:
Maine Trees
there are some fast growing pretty tall species available, not a fast dirty trick, but it would put him out of business, and that's dirty and legal...

-----
it took years to get the local mid-city airport closed here, a couple a crashes into homes finally shut it down

 

[westcliffe01]

Al, post the GPS location for your place and an estimate of the location of the airfield. I have an FAA airport directory and an aviation GPS. One could then overlay the approach zones over the runway and take a look if you are living in one of them. If you are not in an approach zone, the other guy has no right whatsoever to be flying over your place lower than 500ft above the highest point on your property.

These are basic facts that have to be clarified before you go any further, since if you are in the approach zone you would have to prove that the overflights are not directly connected to takoffs and landings or go-arounds. If you do not have line of sight to the runway, it can be tough to prove.

500ft is still pretty low and that is allowed up to the legal speed limit (yes there is a speed limit, but he probably couldn't make it unless he was in a dive, unless he is flying a P51 or a jet). Unfortunately (and I do believe it is so) the FAA has been lobbied for decades to prevent noise restrictions from being imposed on general aviation. If one evaluates many of the european built "sport category" airplanes, you will find that they are extremely quiet and can barely be heard on landing approach. We are fortunate to have a lot more space in the US than the europeans, but uneccersarily loud planes do nothing to improve aviations popularity and public support. Its the same as the people out on the lake with their V8 jet boats with open pipes. They can typically be heard for miles out on the chain of lakes I live on and significantly degrades others quality of life.

So if you would pass on the information, we may be able to help you understand where you are at, so to speak.

 

[rhett]

Al, post the GPS location for your place and an estimate of the location of the airfield. I have an FAA airport directory and an aviation GPS. One could then overlay the approach zones over the runway and take a look if you are living in one of them. If you are not in an approach zone, the other guy has no right whatsoever to be flying over your place lower than 500ft above the highest point on your property.

These are basic facts that have to be clarified before you go any further, since if you are in the approach zone you would have to prove that the overflights are not directly connected to takoffs and landings or go-arounds. If you do not have line of sight to the runway, it can be tough to prove.

500ft is still pretty low and that is allowed up to the legal speed limit (yes there is a speed limit, but he probably couldn't make it unless he was in a dive, unless he is flying a P51 or a jet). Unfortunately (and I do believe it is so) the FAA has been lobbied for decades to prevent noise restrictions from being imposed on general aviation. If one evaluates many of the european built "sport category" airplanes, you will find that they are extremely quiet and can barely be heard on landing approach. We are fortunate to have a lot more space in the US than the europeans, but uneccersarily loud planes do nothing to improve aviations popularity and public support. Its the same as the people out on the lake with their V8 jet boats with open pipes. They can typically be heard for miles out on the chain of lakes I live on and significantly degrades others quality of life.

So if you would pass on the information, we may be able to help you understand where you are at, so to speak.

**** NO!

PLEASE KEEP YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION PRIVATE!!!!!

westcliffe01, do you realize what you are asking? would you post your SSN and CC info ??????????????????????????????????

Edit:
The request for such information from a total stranger is, dang-nab-it = Safety Police are watching...............

 

[westcliffe01]

He can send it to me in a PM. I only need the GPS coordinates. Are you worried about him recieving a few "visitors" ?

 

[rhett]

He can send it to me in a PM. I only need the GPS coordinates. Are you worried about him recieving a few "visitors" ?

yes, you or any misaligned intruder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!