Kioti tractor issues.

[jlindstrom]

Hey Guys , Got a real interesting one for you that I need your opinion on.
I have a Kioti CK3510 HST with a KL 4010 loader. only has 418 hours. ( bought it new less than 3 years ago )
For the last year and 1/2, I've been have issues keeping the bolts tight on the loader bracket to tractor tight.
I mostly use my tractor for driveway maintenance ( snow, gravel ) with some lifting of snow and gravel work.
The last time I replace all the bolts and ran a tap into the threads to clean them up and used some red lock tight.
It lasted about a hour then saw that only 3 bolts had fallen out and the rest were barely in. then saw the clutch housing had a large crack in the house.
My local dealer has been trying hard to get Kioti to repair and finally came with a offer to fix it.
They will pay for the parts; new clutch housing and loader brackets only: and I have to pay, labor and shipping and new bolts again.
The loader brackets only are loose on the one side and there is no visible damage to the brackets?....
Is there a reason they want to replace the brackets? defect? Recall? if so they know about it?
is there a reason it's only one side?
Let me know what you guys think and what should I do.. Haven't been real happy with how they ( Kioti ) keeps dragging their feet on this but..

 

[oosik]

You used Lok Tite, torqued the bolts to required specs - let it sit a while for the Lok Tite to harden?? And the bolts backed out like in your picture?

Is it possible there is a miss-match between the bolts and the threads on the engine casting? Have the threads on the engine casting been so damaged that they will no longer hold the bolts.

This DEFINITELY should not be happening. Definitely a situation where Kioti maintenance should get involved and solve this problem.

 

[BrkMstr]

With the red LT, torqued - I agree with oosik - something not matching up......

 

[Rebeldad1]

if you have had it less than 3 years arnt you still in warranty? the obvious is something is wrong. the bolts with the loctite should show how much thread actually was holding.
has the dealer been aware of this for the last year and 1/2 as well?

either way accept the offered repair, keep all parts and if you cant work out a 100% coverage with the warranty you can pursue it legally.

 

[Rebeldad1]

ok another thought before you do anything will be to have a well established machine shop do a inspection on it first. have them document their findings and send them to the dealer to pass on.

 

[jlindstrom]

Hey Guys thanks for the suggestion.
Yes I did torque to the recommend spec, let the Loctite dry for almost 24 hours..
as far as the miss matched bolts , I did get them from the local Kioti dealer, and they treaded in nice and smooth.
The dealer has been aware of the problems. the dealer has really been pushing the Kioti rep to take care of this but...
as far as the warranty as I was told " the loader has a 1 year warranty and the tractor has a 3 year warranty." they are saying this is a loader issue , which i say it's a tractor issue.
I like the suggestion from Rebedad1 said about a machine shop inspecting the tractor.
kind of funny that the dealer hasn't ask what I wanted to do as of yet..( it's been a week already.)
Thanks for the ideas and letting me know I'm not crazy in what is going on...
Please if any of you have any other ideas or views please let me know..
Thanks again
Jeff

 

[Dave M7040]

From the photo posted, it looks like the hole in the bracket is much larger than the shank of the bolt.

If there is a lot of clearance between the bolt shank and the hole in the bracket, the bolts will never stay tight.

The relative movement between the bolt and the bracket will work things loose no matter how tight you torque it and the use of Locktite.

Dave M7040

 

[747driver]

^^^x2. Have you taken bolts out of the other side to compare with the damaged ones ? Is the holes in the good bracket the right size that will not allow the bolt to move ? I would be concerned that the casting holes in the tractor frame have been elongated as well . The crack in the clutch housing probably came from the bolts working loose and putting to much torque on the housing causing it to crack. Somewhere along the way from when you took delivery there was a mismatch in the bolts and the bracket to the frame casting.. I like the idea of having a machine shop take a look at everything.

 

[dodge man]

Look at the pic again, you can see the cracks, that is why the bolts will not hold.

 

[747driver]

Look at the pic again, you can see the cracks, that is why the bolts will not hold.

Even though the casting is cracked that wouldn't make the bolts come loose IMOP. Not unless there is a crack in the casting we cannot see which is going thru the bolt holes in the casting ? The casting and the bracket should remain attached to each other provided there is nothing wrong with the bolts matching to the casting.

 

[dodge man]

I do not know, it looks like pretty serious cracks. It is also possible the loose bolt caused the cracks?

 

[metalbender]

Loose bolts will cause cracks from the shock loads the loader exerts. Initial small fractures, getting severe after a few attempts to tighten. I suspect the parts cost are less than the labor, hence the dealer offer to supply parts.

 

[CoyPatton]

Loose bolts will cause cracks from the shock loads the loader exerts. Initial small fractures, getting severe after a few attempts to tighten. I suspect the parts cost are less than the labor, hence the dealer offer to supply parts.

And due to that stress especially if the slightly lose bolts are still in the casing the cracks are extremely likely to begin from that source. This explains as well as any why red loc-tited torqued bolts fall out so quickly. Just as soon any flex is put against the tractor frame or the loader (you know like raising the bucket) the casing hokes flex in that crack and the pressure on the bolt from the loader shifts the threads and breaks the loc tite seal.
While it was likely caused by an install failure, any hard push against the company is likely to result in a determination by Kioti that the casing crack was an abuse issue. At present that is a parts tractor. Labor for the removal of the housing from the tractor, the removal of internals and the reinstalling of internals and new housing is going to be $$$$!
Best of luck to the OP on resolution of this issue.

 

[deezler]

Dang, that sucks. That crack is no beuno.

Do you perhaps also do a lot of excavating with the front loader? IE digging up the hard, undisturbed ground. I'm trying to think of what conditions could cause that housing crack to form, which, once started, could easily lead to the loosening bolts.

 

[Rebeldad1]

If it comes down to you having to fix it I would try installing and bottoming out GR8 studs. Best fresh loctite as well.
Studs have always done better than bolts for harsh use.

 

[deezler]

^ he needs a new clutch housing. Can't try to live with a crack like that.

 

[Kernopelli]

I wonder if safety wire would be enough to keep them from backing out in the future? Not an ideal situation on a nice newer machine but I once had an issue with chronic loose bolts ( on a mower) and out of frustration ended up tack welding the bolt head to frame. Cut off wheel on an angle grinder to cut the tack was the plan for bolt removal if I ever needed ( which I didn't).

 

[SirMaxwell]

From the photo posted, it looks like the hole in the bracket is much larger than the shank of the bolt.

If there is a lot of clearance between the bolt shank and the hole in the bracket, the bolts will never stay tight.

The relative movement between the bolt and the bracket will work things loose no matter how tight you torque it and the use of Locktite.

Dave M7040

What Dave said. I've seen this on other stuff, best to put a bushing in (usually can just make a quick brass bush). If not, you will be fighting it for ever and ever.

 

[jlindstrom]

Good afternoon to you all..
Wanted to give a update on my lovely tractor issues.. ( yep sarcasm!)
I had a weld shop look at it( only one that had the time when I had the bracket)
Everyone I showed this to and looked at it, all agreed the holes in the bracket were the start of my problems.
When I took it to the dealer I bought it from. she didn't even get off her but to come look at it then it all changed what they were gonna cover..
Took my tractor to another dealer and saw hope but quickly disappeared. Found out that the original rep had some notes from the first place and had it in there i re-tapped and bigger bolts! ( which was a complete lie from the first dealer) got the bolts from the mechanic and correct tap!
So now nothing was covered!, so I asked how much, my cost.. They both ( dealers ) have stopped communicating with me all together..
And now I'm out of warranty all together..
I've sent emails to Kioti and still nothing.. The tractor itself had no issues with it is all the service and not standing behind everything..
WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER KIOTI OR RECOMEND TO ANYONE..
I've basically have given up on a repair through Kioti.. Working on a few ideas but I have a 1/2 a tractor now ..
Thanks for all your help, much apricated.

 

[daman1]

Sorry to hear that hopefully somebody steps forward and help solve this some way for you that's just ridiculous.

KIOTI wasn't even on the radar of my consideration when I was shopping for my sub compact they're just a cheap POS looking machine I've heard a lot of problems about both machine and dealers not wanting to cover stuff. Definitely look at it different color if you ever buy again.