Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[DavesTractor]

Dave, do you know if anyone makes a scoop knife that can be fitted to a Caroni flail. Caroni only sells Y knive flails as you probably know having been a dealer for them in the past.

The scoop knives work on the Caroni 1900mm model. Quite a few places sell the knives. We get ours from Vrisimo and I think they sell for about $3 each, but keep in mind that they take the place of two of the "Y" blades. There are different size holes on the scoops, some are more elongated than others, that is the issue you have to watch.

 

[Brahmus]

I also emailed Keith about the cheaper BETST Flail and he had this to say...

The flails come with Y shaped Grass Blade. The Brush blade option is a scoop type, each Brush replace 2 Y.

Now he calls it a brush blade. But I'd think it would do a much better job on the lawn than the Y blade. And Iron Horse already said they do a good job on brush. So is this the ticket, a scoop blade on either the BETST or the Caroni?

 

[IslandTractor]

I also emailed Keith about the cheaper BETST Flail and he had this to say...

The flails come with Y shaped Grass Blade. The Brush blade option is a scoop type, each Brush replace 2 Y.

Now he calls it a brush blade. But I'd think it would do a much better job on the lawn than the Y blade. And Iron Horse already said they do a good job on brush. So is this the ticket, a scoop blade on either the BETST or the Caroni?

There is a lot of confusion about which blades are best for brush (my own confusion added to the pot). As I understand it the Y blades are actually preferred for brush. As IronHorse has argued, the hammer type do very well with lawns. Now that Dave has identified a scoop/hammer type replacement blade for the TM1900, I'd say just get that mower, try it out and if you don't like the cut with the Y blades then buy 28 of the P blades and switch them out. (Note: per Ironhorse's correction the wide blades Dave was talking about are not P hammers but "scoop knives" or "folded cup knives")

 

[Brahmus]

Now that Dave has identified a scoop/hammer type replacement blade for the TM1900, I'd say just get that mower, try it out and if you don't like the cut with the Y blades then buy 28 of the P blades and switch them out.

That's what I'm thinking!! Thanks for all the help!

 

[Eagleview]

I just need to clarify that the cast Manganese hammers like the Seppi ones are the 'P' hammers . If you follow the link i posted earlier you will find the "Folded Cup Knives" very cheap . They also list the adaptors and shackles needed for different fitments . The GE709-D was $2.39 and the GE709-P was around $1.2?

 

[Brahmus]

I just need to clarify that the cast Manganese hammers like the Seppi ones are the 'P' hammers . If you follow the link i posted earlier you will find the "Folded Cup Knives" very cheap . They also list the adaptors and shackles needed for different fitments . The GE709-D was $2.39 and the GE709-P was around $1.2?

Both provide the same finish correct? I'm assuming the "P" hammers are more durable for commercial type use where as the others would work for us homeowners?

 

[Brahmus]

Keith with BETST provided these images of the Hammer style blades at a price of $188 for the "kit".

 

[Eagleview]

Both provide the same finish correct? I'm assuming the "P" hammers are more durable for commercial type use where as the others would work for us homeowners?

Yes that would be correct . I may even try a set on my big flail for light work . The beauty of this type is that they eliminate the gap that the 'Y' blades have and would also create more suction as well as being an easy replacement option .

 

[davitk]

Well, I decided it was time to sharpen my knives since the mower was struggling, and the reed canary grass really needed to be cut. To my surprise the blades were not so much dull as mangled, maybe 1 in six seemed to be hitting each other or their mounting brackets . Any thoughts as to why?: poor design, improperly lubricated, pushing too hard in the tall stuff, not running at high enough PTO speed (often run at 500 vs recommended 540 rpm), using as tiller (don't ask ).

I am half way through sharpening after (only) two hours. At this rate it might be faster to just replace.

 

[Eagleview]

Most of the above . Blades need the centrifigal force to keep them off the drum so correct PTO speed is needed (use 1000rpm setting at lower engine revs if you have it for light mowing) . Poor design , blade mounts should not be used as blade stops . Use as a tiller , no no . Why not try a set of the folded cup knives , i think you would find they would hit the drum squarely with their backs and not be damaged .

 

[Ryan03]

We run Alamo brand flail mowers exclusively at work. Some are hydraulic drive {batwing}, and some are PTO{3pt}. We primarily cut roadside ditches amd freeway medians. We run double sided Y blades, and buy them by the 55 gallon drum. One nice thing about them is that they are reversible, so when one side is shot, you simply remove and flip them. The biggest Flail mower advic that I can give is keep those rear Roller and cutter drum bearings swimming in grease. You would be suprised how much time they spend under water and how many contaminents are constantly being thrown at them. We recently began converting over to Vogel auto grease systems, and once we got them calibrated properly, we went from 1 set of roller bearings and 3 or so cutter drum bearings a season to per unit to 5 bearings all together for the entire fleet of 12.

 

[GinNB]

You can get knife sharpeners that'll sharpen them right on the cuttershaft and undoubtedly be much faster/safer than the vicegrips/minigrinder approach. That being said, we usually use them until they're too dull/worn to be of much use and then replace them.

 

[IslandTractor]

On a related topic brought up earlier in this thread....the tendency of the Caroni flail gearbox to puke oil from the gearbox due to the gears throwing it directly up on the vent cap....I have finally found the correct fitting to put an extension piece on the gearbox. Size is 16mm x1.5 mm threads to match the dipstick. Source was British Metrics. Address is on one of the photos below. Works perfectly. With the dipstick in the extension the very bottom of the dipstick shows oil if you had it filled to the top fill line without the extension. No oil spillage at all once the extender is put in. Cost was about $10 plus shipping as I recall.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

i pulled up a stool, got my tools beside me and took a flapper wheel and 4.5 angle grinder

i just wanted to get outside.....took me two hour and a half evenings.....

the flapper wheel seemed to be easier to control and seemed to remove less material......cleaner edge..

i did all 88 blades, both sides!

i was proud that i saved money and that i have the other edge ready for next time.......replaced a few pins that needed it.....

made a WORLD of difference on how it cuts, and how much power it requires.....

i cut my 50x100 front yard with it out by the main road.....remember the old john deere commercials that said, "you can cut your yard 3.8 seconds" (they showed some huge tractor on some small groomed yard.

my neighbors ran out on the front porch to see all the commotion!

redneck in the suburbs!

 

[GinNB]

Ryan, I got an interesting piece of advice from Doug Bragg of Doug Bragg Enterprises (they make superduty mowers for blueberry service) a couple of months ago. He said that the NTN cuttershaft bearings were rated by NTN to survive mower duty for 3000hrs with NO GREASING! The rubber seals kept dirt, water, etc out extremely well, but that they usually started failing around 1000hrs if customers started greasing them. Doug knows of one mower that was just getting in need of cuttershaft bearings now after 8000!?!? hours of service. I, of course, found this out AFTER we started greasing ours, but I'm going to put caps instead of grease nipples on some of our stuff as it gets rebuilt to see what happens. I'm not sure how that'll work on roller bearings because they sit in the crud and the seals get nicked and dinged with rocks/twigs/string/garbage all the time.

 

[Ryan03]

I can see how the grease may attract contaminents that may otherwise not stick to the bearings and seals. We have always just tried to grease them often. Please keep me informed on your findings with capping the fittings on your rebuilt mowers. I would love to find a way to get that kind of life out of our bearings.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Wow great thread. I've been reading this thread off and on for two days. One question I havent seen asked (unless I missed it) is does a flail form any suction to lift up the grass after the tractor tires push it down.

 

[IslandTractor]

Wow great thread. I've been reading this thread off and on for two days. One question I havent seen asked (unless I missed it) is does a flail form any suction to lift up the grass after the tractor tires push it down.

I don't know about suction but I cannot see my tire marks after running over grass with the flail.

 

[Eagleview]

Wow great thread. I've been reading this thread off and on for two days. One question I havent seen asked (unless I missed it) is does a flail form any suction to lift up the grass after the tractor tires push it down.

I don't know how much suction Y knives have but cast hammers have heaps of suction . Which does suck the flatened grass up to meet the cutters . The only time i have trouble with missing whippy sticks is when they are long enough to be held down by the wheels as the mower passes over them . Once the wheels are off them they partially stand back up and they only get thier tops cut off . If this happens , after i'm done mowing i select a higher gear and run around in the opposite direction and hit them again . Because of their angle they get feed straight into the chamber .

 

[Eagleview]

There , 600