liens

[TomSeller]

I have just read the 14 pages of this topic. Were are a country of laws and due process. The laws are there to protect buyers and sellers. A lein holder must file the paperwork and follow very specific rules to protect his interest. If the lein holder has not followed the rules he has voided his interest. If you have a bill of sale and proof of payment, you have acted in good faith. There is an axiom "possession is 9/10th of the law." Do not turn over possesion of item without proper documentation and only to an approved officer of the courts. Require the lein holder to take it to court and get a judgement. With a signed bill of sale and proof of payment and possesion of property and a valid lein holder, a crime has been commited by the seller. If you give up the item to the lein holder without due process, there is no crime and you have given up any right to the equipment. The lein holder will ask for return or demand return of the equipment most often when the lein holder knows he does not have a valid lein. If the lein holder takes with out going through the courts, file a theft report with the local authorities. If you do not you have given up any interest you have in the property.

Sounds about what I would have thought. Make sure the finance company has their ducks in a row before giving up the tractor.

 

[two_bit_score]

I have just read the 14 pages of this topic. ... ... ... ... The lein holder will ask for return or demand return of the equipment most often when the lein holder knows he does not have a valid lein. .

Sounds about what I would have thought. Make sure the finance company has their ducks in a row before giving up the tractor.

Nothing at all wrong about making sure the finance company has crossed all t's and dotted all i's correctly. However, read the above sentence and explain how it makes sense.

If the lien holder asks for his property back that is somehow evidence he has no valid lien? How does that make sense? What?



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[My Gym]

"If the lien holder asks for his property back that is somehow evidence he has no valid lien? How does that make sense? What? "


As with most in this discussion, you confuse a lien and ownership. It is not "his property". I can ask you for a million dollars, and if you willingly give it to me. I now have a million dollars, Thank you, very much, and good luck getting it back. If I say that you owe me a million dollars and you willingly give it to me. I "might" have committed a crime, but good luck getting it back. If I get the million dollars against your will or forceably, call 911 and file a police report, a crime has been committed.
If the equipment was leased and not a lien, then the seller sold property that he did not own and committed a crime. Force the legal system to get involved. Try walking into a pawn shop and walking out with your stolen chainsaw even with a police report with serial number.

 

[My Gym]

I did not answer your question two_bit_score

"If the lien holder asks for his property back that is somehow evidence he has no valid lien? How does that make sense? What? "

The lien holder is taking the easy way out and not due process. If he takes the easy way in this, he most likely took the easy way and did not file the necessary paperwork and thus a non valid lien. The lien holder is trying to save time and money by asking you to do something you may not have to do. He may use threats and intimidation, but these are also the tactics of scams, fraud, and swindlers. Make sure that the lien holder has a valid lien. If he uses threats and intimidation, file a police report. There is a good chance that it is fraud.

 

[CincyFlyer]

One thing that I pointed out that some have missed: just because a lender didn't fill a UCC lien does not mean that they cannot repossess collateral due to a default or other violation of the terms of the loan! It only means that if there are other lien-holders that they may no longer be "first in line", and they may have a harder row to hoe.

 

[two_bit_score]

"If the lien holder asks for his property back that is somehow evidence he has no valid lien? How does that make sense? What? "


As with most in this discussion, you confuse a lien and ownership. It is not "his property". I can ask you for a million dollars, and if you willingly give it to me. I now have a million dollars, Thank you, very much, and good luck getting it back. If I say that you owe me a million dollars and you willingly give it to me. I "might" have committed a crime, but good luck getting it back. If I get the million dollars against your will or forceably, call 911 and file a police report, a crime has been committed.
If the equipment was leased and not a lien, then the seller sold property that he did not own and committed a crime. Force the legal system to get involved. Try walking into a pawn shop and walking out with your stolen chainsaw even with a police report with serial number.

Now you are trying to parse words to get out of the box you created. Change 'property' to 'security interest' or as you said 'equipment' and we're still at the same place. In this particular context it's a distinction without a difference.

Your statement that if they ask for the equipment back indicates they have an invalid lien makes no sense.

It's just the normal first step to recovery of their security interest; putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution.


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[My Gym]

two_bit_score

"Now you are trying to parse words to get out of the box you created."

I have created no box I am not trying to parse words. It is not a court of law and we are not lawyers. Do not try to insult me. I do not have a dog in the fight. It is a discussion on line with total strangers. Words or terms make a huge difference. A lease is different than a bill of sale. A UCC filing has different rules in different states. Not all liens are valid, but they can have an effect on a sale. You can sell property with a lien in some cases if the buyer assumes the debt. Car dealers do it all the time. It is simply a discussion.



"It's just the normal first step to recovery of their security interest; putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution."

In my opinion, an normal first step is a certified letter putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution. At this point if the possessor hides, or sells, the property, he is potentially committing a crime.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I did not answer your question two_bit_score

"If the lien holder asks for his property back that is somehow evidence he has no valid lien? How does that make sense? What? "

The lien holder is taking the easy way out and not due process. If he takes the easy way in this, he most likely took the easy way and did not file the necessary paperwork and thus a non valid lien. The lien holder is trying to save time and money by asking you to do something you may not have to do. He may use threats and intimidation, but these are also the tactics of scams, fraud, and swindlers. Make sure that the lien holder has a valid lien. If he uses threats and intimidation, file a police report. There is a good chance that it is fraud.

To add to this, there's a good chance the person the OP has been dealing with is not the actual lien-holder but a collection agency. Particularly since it's been four years since the sale. When a company decides that a debt is uncollectable it's common practice to sell the debt for pennies on the dollar, those debts get passed around like trading cards. Those guys cold-call lists of numbers, on the long-shot that one of them will pay off. They use deception, intimidation and outright fraud. These guys will say things like, "I'm calling on behalf of JD Credit" to make you think they're with the company, but they're not.

Read this article before doing anything: Inside the Dark, Lucrative World of Consumer Debt Collection - The New York Times

My advice (which is worth exactly what you paid for it) is to cease all contact with the debt collectors When they call, tell them they need to talk to your attorney and ask for a name and number that your attorney can call. If they hem and haw at that -- or just hang up -- they're probably fakers.

Since it's been four years, there's a good chance that JD Credit wrote the loan off as uncollectable as soon as they learned the tractor had been sold.

****, for all the OP knows the whole thing is a scam, there never was a lien in the first place.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

"It's just the normal first step to recovery of their security interest; putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution."

In my opinion, an normal first step is a certified letter putting the possessor on notice that they have a security interest in the property and requesting a resolution. At this point if the possessor hides, or sells, the property, he is potentially committing a crime.

Agree. Trying to settle something of this magnitude without a paper trail is sketchy as h***.