lubricants

[mark1]

When I had my cover off the creeper gear box.while changing the oils I ended up putting 2 quarts back into it to get it to the level of the main tranny.did the dip stick hole mod.and now can check it anytime.I don't believe the oil "flows" between the two boxes..they just seem to seek their same level,Used Castrol 80w90 GL-4 (safe for yellow metals oil). I would suggest to JINMA224XR to just fill the creeper box dip stick level and see how it sounds.

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Joe,
I'm sorry to hear of your problems. Its really not your fault as this has happened to two others I know of. The oil should flow into the creeper housing but on some it don't. The good news is they are working fine.
I guess the best thing to do is pull the creeper cover and take a look. If there is oil in there then, thats good. If not you will have to fill it and maybe do that cover dipstick modification.
Obviously it never does anything any good to run with no lubrication but I've had vehicles brought to me that had their transmissions, differentials leak their oil out completely and went quite a distance. You would be surprised how far some do go. Luckily these tractors don't turn high RPM and the transmission shafts turn slower than road vehicles.
Give the oil a try. Nothing to lose.
Regards, Harry

 

[JINMA224XR]

Hey Mark,

I will do as you suggested. I haven't listened to the Creeper Gears, after I put the 85w140 in it yet. The sun was going down when i was finishing up yesterday and I just put up my tools and came on in, to let you all know how it went.

But I think that the oil transfer point was stopped up. When I poured Diesel fuel into the Transmission fill point, it took quiet a bit of fuel. I don't know exactly how much, but I would guess that I had about 2 gallons in one can. I put it in and nothing came out. Then I started pouring in from another full 5 gal can, and I just kept pouring until it finally came out the creeper gear drain hole. I probably put in total of about 5 gallons at least, before it started coming out the drain hole. But when it did come out,, it was pouring out. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

When I put in the 85w140. It didn't start to come out the Transfer case drain until I had put in 5 gal.. I was getting worried, because I didn't have but 6 gal on hand. The 85w140 didn't come out the Creeper Gear Oil drain, until I put in the 6th gallon, but when it did come out,, it was pouring out the drain. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif My oil leve now is extremely high in the transmission case now, and I will have to drain out, quiet a bit,, maybe a gallon or so, until I get it to the proper level on the dip stick.

Which almost makes me think that I didn't have the proper oil level in the transmission. I used the method of screwing in my dip stick to check the oil level. I had always thought that was the correct method. But on this tractor, the correct method may be, not to screw in the dip stick to check the oil levels. Heck i don't know anything anymore.

I'll probably be having nightmares about my transmission siezing up for years to come now. I would venture to say that my gearing in the Creeper gear housing is worn in pretty good by now and is ok to use the 85w140 oil. I was amazed at how easy it flowed in and flowed out. I couldn't tell much difference at all, between it and the 80w90 in pouring consistency. I'm sure that there is,, but when I did this yesterday, it was about 65 to 70 degrees outside and the Sun had warmed up my containers of 85w140 pretty good.

There was about an ounce of oil that did come out however, and I am hoping that was enough to lubricate the bearings. It is only a hope though.

Just imagine, how many other owners that are not online and not reading these forums, that don't even know to check their Creeper Gear Housing oil.

Which is why we all need to have a Genuine Technical Support from Jinma. I for one would be willing to pay for the service.

Maybe that is what the CTOA, is all about, anybody know if they are getting Geniune Technical Support from Jinma?

Anybody else that has any advice on this problem that I have encountered, don't be shy, just blurt it out. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'll read it and so will a lot of other Jinma owners.

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[JINMA224XR]

Hey Harry,

Thanks Harry, I do all that I can, with my limited knowledge and budget, but still there is no excuse for me, overlooking this.

I would say that my tractor is a good candidate for the heavier 85w140 gear oil now. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I still can't get over how easily it went into the case. It went in almost as fast as I could pour it out of the gallon container. I expect it to take a bit longer on the front drive though.

After thinking about it. I had to put in at least 5 gallons of diesel fuel before it started coming out the creeper drain hole, and I was pouring in the 6th gallon of 85w140, before it started coming out the creeper drain hole. I'll have to let some out now, probably at least a gallon.

So I think what is going on, is that the fluids are overflowing the casting that separates the creeper reservoir and the transmission reservoir. Especially since, when the fluids started coming out the creeper drain hole, that it was pouring out and not dribbleing or dripping out.

I will do as you say and check my level in the creeper housing by taking the cover plate off. On my next change, I will try flushing with diesel fuel again to try and open up the blockage. By then, it may have opened up on it's own. If my transmission has not seized up before then.

At least, I know that I have a problem and am addressing it. If I hadn't been reading these forums,, I probably would have never known to check the creeper gear oil.

Will it hurt anything to have the oil level in the creeper gear at too high a level?

Thanks again &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Joe,
Very good question. Too low is obvious but a little overfilled is I guess okay but way overfilled is no good either. What happens is the gears then bash/thrash the oil and it most likely will aerate and diminishes its lubricating qualities. Heat causes the fluid to expand too. Also the front seal(especially) may not be able to hold back the oil being thrown onto it. If that happens then oil gets into clutch housing, not a good thing either.
So with that said the oil should be at a reasonable level. I had originally thought the oil overflowed a partition to fill the creeper but evidently not. I can't remember but it might have been Chip that said the oil seeps thru the rear bearing to the creeper housing. Who knows,,, maybe the Chinese use sealed bearings once in a while and this causes the no fill problem. I am just guessing at that.
Anyways if you look at the 1st pic of the creeper cover off you will see that the oil level barely covers the lower shaft and is about 5 1/2 to 6" from the top of the case. The oil is thrown all over the place once that shaft starts turning so don't try and start engine with that cover off unless you want a gear oil bath. You can use the trans dipstick to get an good approximation on where the oil level should be if you have the creeper cover off. I would guess(and only a guess) the creeper holds about 2 qts full.

 

[JINMA224XR]

Hey Harry,

It looks like to me, that the only way for me to make sure of the proper level of the oil in the Creeper Gear box, is to remove the cover, take a look and then measure the oil level.

When I take the cover off, is it necessary to remove the operating handle, or does the operating handle and the arm that operates the Shifter fork all lift out together?

I also noticed on the parts schematic, that there is a small bearing and spring. If I remember correctly that is located in a recessed area on the shaft that the Shifter Fork slides on. I'm trying to see if there are any little parts that might fall down into the Creeper case.

I'll leave the operating lever in either the high or low range to make it easier to line up, when I put the cover back on.

There's no way around it, the covers got to come off to see where the oil level is.

Have a nice day,
Joe

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Joe, just remove the 8 bolts and the cover lifts right off. Its almost impossible to put it back on incorrectly. You will see when you take it off. Its not like some transmissions I've had to overhaul. These China tractors are simplicity in design. Thats why we like them so much.
Let me (us) know any other questions you have. Remember, "The only dumb question is the one not asked"
Regards, Harry

God Bless our Troops. Every one of them

 

[JINMA224XR]

Hey Guys,

Today I went out to see if the oil in the creeper made any difference in the rasping/rattleing noise. The reservoir was way over filled, but I couldn't hear any unusual noise and it was pretty quiet, Just a little whiring sound, to let me know that the gears were moving. Too much oil in there may have been muffleing any sound though, but I wanted to run it a little bit in the over full level to try and get everything lubricated good again. Then I drained out the excess through the Creeper Gear, so I know that it is getting oil now.

While the oil was dribbleing out of the creeper, I drained and flushed with diesel fuel and refilled the front drive with the 85w140. It went in about as easy as the 80w90. I did notice that the 80w90 looks like regular brown oil, but the 85w140 is Golden/Yellow in color. I talked with the Chevron Tech guys and they said that on the cold end 80w or 85w, there wasn't much difference at all, but on the hotter end, the 140 will give more protectection than the 90.

I still don't know, if the rasping rattling noise will have stopped, until I run the tractor at the proper oil level. But so far I am a little bit encouraged.

You know guys, I was thinking about it. Flushing these systems with Diesel fuel, may help condition the gaskets as well and may help swell them up to seal better. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

I know one thing, the transmission and front drive ought to be really clean on my little 224 now, after doing this 2 different times. The diesel fuel that came out was so clean.

Have a nice day,
Joe

 

[pjogrinc]

Question : What is meant by "safe for yellow metals oil" ??
I have been under the impression that oils and seal material compatability was an issue, not type of metal and oil.

 

[JINMA224XR]

Good Question, about "Yellow Metals".

In my quest for information, I did stumble accross an oil technician, that told me, that the chemicals used in a multi viscosity oil might not be compatible with certain kinds of metals. I think that he named copper as one of them, but the names of the metals that he called out didn't stick in my memory.

Mabe Mark will see this and tell us all about it.

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif