M62 TLB for Maintaining Hilly Land ?

[JWR]

No the creeper on the M62 is different. It is a little forward/back toggle switch that actually moves the machine...its not a gear. Meant specifically for backhoes to slightly reposition the machine when you have the seat facing backwards towards the boom.

Oh good grief! I know nothing of that. Shut my mouth. I'll learn from you guys.

 

[Smokeydog]

The M59 was to replace M5030DT. The M5030 was bigger, heavier and 7’ wide. Thought about wheel extensions for the M59 at 6’ wide. Added 2” rear extensions to the B26 made a huge difference on hilly ground. Have learn to live with M59 as is. It is at times a scary strong machine. The backhoe outriggers do need improvement to compete with bigger BH. The optional rubber pads help. Made mine wider for side stability. M62 has another 2’ reach. Do miss the Detroit type locker front axle on the M5030. The M59 has higher FEL lifting capacity and industrial tires up front are better to handle heavier type loads. Slightly smaller helps in woods too. Bigger machines aren’t always better. In and around buildings and utilities repair the small B26 really shines.

 

[AuCivil]

So my nephew is pushing me toward a 75 hp compact track loader because you can get implements for anything. He's in the construction business and ran the pre-M59 kubota's in his business before he transitioned to CTL's. He had nothing negative to say about the TLB's other than maneuverability, speed and the need to have a service truck with an air compressor to blow out the radiator every 20 minutes if you're mowing. He is looking at it from a production standpoint and he also has other equipment available.
The CTL's may or may not be better on slopes. I'd love to have a CTL with a front mower with stump grinder teeth but don't think it would meet my long-term needs. The heat/AC cab is tempting but it's not a tractor.

 

[Smokeydog]

Good many options and tracked machines definitely have advantages on slopes.

Big advantage tractors have over skidsteers is egress to cab and labor. Important for a one man workforce. Often picking up limbs/trees then having to chainsaw to length while suspended. Same for pulling post and removing a section of fence. Getting in/out picking up limbs in the driveway. Hard and dangerous climbing over the bucket, grapple or forks with a load of a CTL. Backhoe doing utility repairs, firewood, rock stacking takes getting off and on a lot. Use the backhoe for a crane that I can also operate from the ground. M59 is easy to get on and off.

A friend with a M59 and I have been thinking the advantages of mini-excavator for some projects. Kubota KX040, -57, -121 share the same bucket quick system with our M59s and could share attachments. Still be able to transport with trailers using now.

We do use our M59s for landscaping maintenance and don’t tear up the ground.

 

[rScotty]

So my nephew is pushing me toward a 75 hp compact track loader because you can get implements for anything. He's in the construction business and ran the pre-M59 kubota's in his business before he transitioned to CLB's. He had nothing negative to say about the TLB's other than maneuverability, speed and the need to have a service truck with an air compressor to blow out the radiator every 20 minutes if you're mowing. He is looking at it from a production standpoint and he also has other equipment available.
The CLB's may or may not be better on slopes. I'd love to have a CTL with a front mower with stump grinder teeth but don't think it would meet my long-term needs. The heat/AC cab is tempting but it's not a tractor.

Your nephew sounds like he has good reasons for what he does, but that is a whole different world.
As far as the implements go, the M59/62 has the same Skid Steer Quick Attach (SSQA) front loader a Compact Track Loader (CTL) does, and remote hydraulics to run implements, too. If you want more flow rate that's available via the PTO.

For some construction guys there is a funny sort of bias towards tracked machines that is almost religious. I don't know what it is because I don't lean that way. But for those who do, the answer is always tracked machines. You are not going to convert a track guy. They are believers. They bounce along on that short wheelbase with grins on their faces... It's like a cult.
Just to prove that point, there is even a Denver-based Bobcat CTL ballet group!! That's right, the whole group gets together to spin and dance and wave their buckets in syncrony like the possessed beings they are. You'd have to see it to get the full effect. It's probably on U tube somewhere.

Good on them. I'll admit that the next TLB ballet group I see will be the first.

It makes sense the way your nephew thinks when he has other people running the CTL and is paying them to work by the hour. But that isn't me. I'm doing the work myself because it working my land is a hobby. My goals are comfort and enjoyment, not speed or efficiency.

In construction, CTL operators have a helper - called a swamper - who does the outside work. For doing the kind of dirt work you are looking at you will be on and off the machine every few minutes. That's no fun on a CTL where you have to crawl over the bucket each way. Although CTLs are mega fun when you are blasting around on a flattish surface. Put a CTL on your list of things to have once in your life.

As far as maneuverability and speed, if going any distance that goes to the tractor... not the CTL. We often travel a few miles on secondary roads with the TLBs. Being old, forgetful, and lazy, I sometimes drive back to the barn for lunch or tools. It's a nice ride, but It's hard to imagine doing that in a CTL. Take both for a spin on a rough road and see what you think.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I wonder if CTLs now have "comfort ride" that is a common option on full size TLBs? Our JD310 has that system. It is a hydraulic damping system that reduces FEL bucket bounce when driving distances on rough ground.

Without that damper, road speed on any machine with a FEL is limited by bounce. CTLs bounce a lot for other reasons, but it would help.

I think Smokey figured out how to install that damping system off a larger Kubota onto his M59?
After seeing what he did, I bought most of the parts to do the same for our M59 - but haven't mounted it yet.
rScotty

 

[mike69440]

I bought some land for an investment, hunting and as a retirement piddle project. I've got 215 acres of land that's 50% moderately sloped thinned pines and 50% steeper sloped hardwoods and hardwood bottoms. I need to maintain the existing roads/trails and create/improve others so I can access the the rest of the property by SxS. I don't want (nor can I afford) a fleet of used vehicles that may or may not need constant repairs. I don't have enough years left to spend it working on equipment. Would prefer to buy new with extended warranty so someone else is responsible for repairs.

I'll be putting in a septic system, waterline, building pad, maintaining/building access roads, food plots and some brush hogging. Was considering a M62 since it appears to be muli-use piece of equipment. I am concerned about stability driving up and down some of the access areas with the M62 TLB. The worst current road is in the range of 36% to 40% (19 to 21 degrees). I can go up and down with my JD 4710 with loaded R4's but I have also slid down too. The M62's additional weight and the backhoe weight concern me. Don't want to flip over.

Stability on the side hills worries me too. Those areas can be more in the 25% (15 degrees) range. Will the M62 be more tippy than the JD 4710? How does the backhoe affect the tippyness?

Here is what I have done to my L39 for stability and to increase loader capacity. See: L39 Fuel Pump Turn Up. Zoom-zoom, sort of. My neighbor has an SV95 CTL, getting rid of his fairly useless L3901. CTL faster stronger, more maneuverable than TBL, but good to have the swiss Army Knife.

 

[mike69440]

I stand by my statement. I don't see anything in the OP's original post saying he needs to be able to tow a machine around everyday for work maintaining gardens in town using a half ton pickup truck.

An M62 is still too little tractor and too little TLB, worst of all worlds for 215 acres. The OP already has a 4710 which isn't a whole lot smaller on the 3PH than the M62.

View attachment 853269
If you need to drive screws, buy a screw driver. One of these won't help you very much.

A 10-12 tonne excavator will save your and very much complement your TLB.

 

[mike69440]

We have a Kubota M59 TLB, which is the M62 predecessor with a slighly shorter BH boom.
Yes, the Kubota TLBs are noticablly more stable on hills than a tractor because they weigh twice as much and because a lot of the weight is low down due to heavier duty construction.

You can also add rear wheel weights and spacers.

But with that many acres, and considering the price range you are already looking into I would recommend a full size TLB. Something like a low hour Deere 310G - actually any model 310 from the older E to the newest ones would be more stable than the Kubota. And they are comfortable, too. The JD310 stability and durability is in a whole different league from homeowner TLBs like the Kubota. I know that for a fact as we live in the mountains and have both.

Stop by your yellow (commercial) Deere shop and try one out.
Our 310 has a buddy seat plus room for the dog when we drive it to town.
Whatever you get, get it with a thumb. I try to go straight up and down hills. When I have to traverse a hillside I pick up a log with the hoe+thumb and swing it alongside the uphill side of the tractor as a counterweight. It helps a little with the pucker factor. Better yet, get a dozer to make you some roads.
There will still be plenty of work for the TLB after the dozer leaves.
rScotty

View attachment 853077

Why get the same type of equipment, just up sized?

 

[AuCivil]

So I went to my local Kubota dealer yesterday to see if they had a M62 I could look at or if they were getting any in. Asked the counter guy, and thought I was speaking Greek for a minute. Another guy walked up and said he wasn't sure they could sell them. They are not a construction dealer. He checked and they can order them. He said they could maintain it as well. I like the dealership "A" but buying a M62 from them didn't give me the warm and fuzzies since they don't appear to have any experience with them. Am I just being paranoid?

 

[rScotty]

I suspect that a lot of compact & utility suburban tractor dealers don't employ a real mechanic. About the farthest they go in the mechanical direction is to have someone who can guess at a problem and change parts. Their "mechanics" uncrate new machines, service them, do routine maintenance by the book, and bolt on accessory kits. It's "cookbook". You can do as much or as little of that for yourself as you wish.

And honestly, that's about all the level of competence you should ever need. The "parts swapping" approach to being a mechanic works fine during a warranty. And after using a warranty period to expose any manufacturing flaws, the machine should be reliable for many years. In fact, most are. So in spite of us old guys grousing about the lack of real mechanics these days, the new approach has advantages.

If you are curious about old fashioned real mechanics, here is a hint: You can often spot a real mechanical shop because they will have a specialized shop truck & offer mobile service. The construction dealer where I go to get parts and chat about our full size TLB has a whole shop full of real mechanics and several trucks. My favorite mobile mechanic was a helicopter mechanic in Afganistan..... 'nuff said.

But now you have me curious. I used to have a mechanical shop. And you've said before that dealer "A" is one that you like.
Since apparently they don't know their products, and their mechanics are limited to maintenance, then just what is it about that dealership that is so attractive?

 

[AuCivil]

I suspect that a lot of compact & utility suburban tractor dealers don't employ a real mechanic. About the farthest they go in the mechanical direction is to have someone who can guess at a problem and change parts. Their "mechanics" uncrate new machines, service them, do routine maintenance by the book, and bolt on accessory kits. It's "cookbook". You can do as much or as little of that for yourself as you wish.

And honestly, that's about all the level of competence you should ever need. The "parts swapping" approach to being a mechanic works fine during a warranty. And after using a warranty period to expose any manufacturing flaws, the machine should be reliable for many years. In fact, most are. So in spite of us old guys grousing about the lack of real mechanics these days, the new approach has advantages.

If you are curious about old fashioned real mechanics, here is a hint: You can often spot a real mechanical shop because they will have a specialized shop truck & offer mobile service. The construction dealer where I go to get parts and chat about our full size TLB has a whole shop full of real mechanics and several trucks. My favorite mobile mechanic was a helicopter mechanic in Afganistan..... 'nuff said.

But now you have me curious. I used to have a mechanical shop. And you've said before that dealer "A" is one that you like.
Since apparently they don't know their products, and their mechanics are limited to maintenance, then just what is it about that dealership that is so attractive?

As a confession - I've always been a Deere guy and my Deere dealer that is about a half mile from Dealer "A". The Deere dealer does have an excellent service department and the service manager is top notch. However, today's Deere, like most other stuff, is not the same Deere of yester-year.

My limited interaction with Dealer "A" has been on implements. I think they know the tractor line which is their normal inventory. They aren't the used car type of sales force and everyone I've dealt with has been very helpful. That and the location is very convenient.

 

[rScotty]

As a confession - I've always been a Deere guy and my Deere dealer that is about a half mile from Dealer "A". The Deere dealer does have an excellent service department and the service manager is top notch. However, today's Deere, like most other stuff, is not the same Deere of yester-year.

My limited interaction with Dealer "A" has been on implements. I think they know the tractor line which is their normal inventory. They aren't the used car type of sales force and everyone I've dealt with has been very helpful. That and the location is very convenient.

Well me too on JD. When my wife said it was new tractor time, I just naturally figured it would be a Green Machine. And I love that color... but persimmon?? Is that a color or a tree? The year was 2008, we had honestly never set foot in a Kubota shop. When my wife saw the off-orange color she started laughing.

The day before we had almost bought a new JD110 TLB which was about 2/3 of the M59 in price and ability. A JD110 is similar to a Kubota L39
In retrospect the JD110 would have been a mistake, but they are a JD and they sure are cute. I wish JD had continued with the small TLBs. By now I'm sure they would have gotten the bugs out.

If your JD service manager is that approachable, he would probably be a good one to ask about the Kubota service dept. Alternately, you might ask the Kubota guys who they call on when they have something serious like a warranty job needing a transmission swap. My guess is they have someone - maybe semi-retired - that they use.

Unless abused, tractors don't require much. I've used the Kubota service dept exactly once in 16 years. They replaced a hydraulic cylinder under warranty. Their mechanic didn't even take the threaded end off the cylinder to tighten the nut causing the problem. Just bolted on a new cylinder - two bolts, connect two hoses, and done in half an hour. They scrapped the old one. That cylinder today is $3425.71.

rScotty

 

[mike69440]

So I went to my local Kubota dealer yesterday to see if they had a M62 I could look at or if they were getting any in. Asked the counter guy, and thought I was speaking Greek for a minute. Another guy walked up and said he wasn't sure they could sell them. They are not a construction dealer. He checked and they can order them. He said they could maintain it as well. I like the dealership "A" but buying a M62 from them didn't give me the warm and fuzzies since they don't appear to have any experience with them. Am I just being paranoid?

If they service a Lot of Grand L and M series tractors, should be ok. The frame and hydraulics are what sets the TLBs apart. The rest is nothing special.

 

[Smokeydog]

Had Ford 4500 backhoe for over twenty years. 2wd. Very tippy on our hillside farm but proved just how handy a backhoe was. So much improved over ag tractor backhoes.

Had the M59 for years before finding an backhoe attachment. Pleasantly surprised how stable the M59 was with the backhoe. Still have to carefully, constantly swinging the boom when traveling or loader work on slopes. Comfortable to control. Good power and controls for a compact machine.

Not the machine for large excavation jobs but more than capable for owner, farm and construction. Footers, septic, road, ponds, creeks, trees, etc. Compact size more valuable than larger capacity for our use.

Was concerned how well the HST plus M59 could handle chores like bushhogging or road grading compared to my previous geared tractors. It’s performed well and is even better in tight, highly maneuverable areas. If I was doing as much hay harvesting as in the past it wouldn’t be my first choice. Buying and feeding out hay would be fine. I our situation our equipment may see several operators with varying skills. The HST adds a significant factor of ease and safety.

 

[AuCivil]

The M62 is a 60 HP tractor with ~45hp pto. I know the lower pto numbers are because of the extra hp for the backhoe's hydraulics. Does the drive-line also take a hit on hp. At 10,000 lbs, it's going to need some horses to climb a 30-40% long slope (with the BH attached) at anything other than a crawl.

I've got a grapple and 4-N-1 bucket for my JD 4710 that will stay at the house property. Not sure if I can or want to swap back and forth between the tractors.

This is the unapproved wish list:
M62 with Loader and BH w/ aux valves
Tires: R4 (bit worried about the traction)
Hydraulics: Top-N-Tilt, Rear Remote valve kit
3-P: really hope I can find telescoping 3-point arms and sway bars
Loader Buckets: 84" HD round back & 4-N-1 & Grapple
Backhoe: Rubber Stabilizer flip pads
Backhoe Buckets: QA's 18" w/ teeth, 36" smooth ditching, ripper
BH thumb
Rear wheel weights
2" rear wheel spacers if available
Aux work lights
Telematics?


Thoughts?

 

[Smokeydog]

Lot of stuff! Quite a package!

Need to improve front grill for grapple work.

Wouldn’t go over 6’ with your grapple or 4 in 1 bucket.

Some have had better reliability from Fit-Rite or other auxiliary hydraulic valves over OEM.

Kubota Soft Ride available?

WSM, filters and oil.

 

[rScotty]

Wow, it must be nice to win the lottery. On the other hand, how often do you get a chance to buy a new tractor set up with everything?

You do realize that the basic tractor with far less extras will do 99% of everything? It would be fun to see what a BASIC list of extras would look like. Just so you know, everything on SmokeyDog's list would make my list of basics. Particularly a seat upgrade. I'd add a cheater for the SSQA, a tarp, and a spinner knob.

I don't quite follow your thinking on the engine HP vs PTO HP. But for what it is worth, here is the way I see it; tell me if this sounds reasonable.

Engine HP is an advertising spec. Good for beer bets. Basically it is a bare engine back in in the lab on a stand without any parasitic losses - it may not even have to run a fan or water pump... all that is done for it. By doing some indirect measurement - like fuel consuption vs BTU out - a geek comes up with a nice unverifiable HP number. Nobody I know is going to take their engine out and measure HP that way. In fact, there probably isn't any way to hook up to that engine to measure HP directly...
The adverting dept. is free to use whatever Engine HP number they feel their geek can justify.

PTO HP is a whole different animal. PTO HP is verifiable by any mechanic in most full size tractor dealerships. They use the number for warranty claims. The dealer may not routinely measured his compact tractors, but they probably can. You can probably pay to have yours measured next time you are in there.
A PTO dynamometer that reads out in HP is a basic piece of diagnostic equipment that it is hard to do without for Ag tractors - there is really no other way to check if a tractor is making proper power. So it's a common tool in any large tractor dealership. Having a PTO shaft makes a dynamometer check quick and easy to do for any size tractor with a PTO.
The shop manual has a number for PTO power and your tractor should darn sure match that spec.

On going up hills... Most tractors I know won't pull top gear to full RPM on even a slight grade. Our big tractor won't do that and the M59 sure won't. Anything over 2% and I don't even bother to try. And ours is at least a ton lighter than what you are proposing. Now it will pull top gear on a smooth flat road, but not at any grade. Luckily the M59/62 with HST plus has six speeds. You'll find one it will pull.

rScotty

 

[AuCivil]

Lot of stuff! Quite a package!

Need to improve front grill for grapple work.

Wouldn’t go over 6’ with your grapple or 4 in 1 bucket.

Some have had better reliability from Fit-Rite or other auxiliary hydraulic valves over OEM.

Kubota Soft Ride available?

WSM, filters and oil.

Thanks for the suggestions. Didn't see a soft ride or a grill guard listed as options. If I'm able to pull the trigger on a new machine, hope I find grill guard like you've got.
I had very limited time last year and spent most of it working on my tractor. No desire to start off a new tractor experience having to add valves.

 

[AuCivil]

Wow, it must be nice to win the lottery. On the other hand, how often do you get a chance to buy a new tractor set up with everything?

You do realize that the basic tractor with far less extras will do 99% of everything? It would be fun to see what a BASIC list of extras would look like. Just so you know, everything on SmokeyDog's list would make my list of basics. Particularly a seat upgrade. I'd add a cheater for the SSQA, a tarp, and a spinner knob.

I don't quite follow your thinking on the engine HP vs PTO HP. But for what it is worth, here is the way I see it; tell me if this sounds reasonable.

Engine HP is an advertising spec. Good for beer bets. Basically it is a bare engine back in in the lab on a stand without any parasitic losses - it may not even have to run a fan or water pump... all that is done for it. By doing some indirect measurement - like fuel consuption vs BTU out - a geek comes up with a nice unverifiable HP number. Nobody I know is going to take their engine out and measure HP that way. In fact, there probably isn't any way to hook up to that engine to measure HP directly...
The adverting dept. is free to use whatever Engine HP number they feel their geek can justify.

PTO HP is a whole different animal. PTO HP is verifiable by any mechanic in most full size tractor dealerships. They use the number for warranty claims. The dealer may not routinely measured his compact tractors, but they probably can. You can probably pay to have yours measured next time you are in there.
A PTO dynamometer that reads out in HP is a basic piece of diagnostic equipment that it is hard to do without for Ag tractors - there is really no other way to check if a tractor is making proper power. So it's a common tool in any large tractor dealership. Having a PTO shaft makes a dynamometer check quick and easy to do for any size tractor with a PTO.
The shop manual has a number for PTO power and your tractor should darn sure match that spec.

On going up hills... Most tractors I know won't pull top gear to full RPM on even a slight grade. Our big tractor won't do that and the M59 sure won't. Anything over 2% and I don't even bother to try. And ours is at least a ton lighter than what you are proposing. Now it will pull top gear on a smooth flat road, but not at any grade. Luckily the M59/62 with HST plus has six speeds. You'll find one it will pull.

rScotty

May not be able to afford the unit - remains to be seen. Last tractor I bought was in 2006 and the next one I buy will probably be the last.

Just wondered if the M59/M62 drive-line felt under-powered as a tractor since it weighed so much.

Cheater for the SSQA?

Wheel weights is the only extra weight and that would be instead of filled tires.