Mahindra no DPF and no Regen?

[deserteagle71]

J
For long time tractor owners, just purchasing a Tier4 machine, he will need to seriously adapt to doing everything at higher rpm than he is normally comfortable with. You hear horror stories of new tractors with just 100 hours, having a plugged DPF. These tractors were never operated at higher rpm, and the owners typically idle at 800rpm and work at 1200rpm. These owners never encourage a regen cycle, because they do not get the exhaust hot enough to burn out the DPF.

Well it also happens commonly in European auto diesels, where new diesel cars, just picked up from a dealer in two weeks get a plugged DPF....because the owners never got the exhaust hot enough to burn out the DPF. You get caught in London traffic, bumper to bumper every day, with your new diesel car, and your DPF will definitly be plugged after just two weeks.

So run the tractor diesel engines at high rpm, to encourage that burn out of the DPF, and that burn out process is also called the regen process.

So I wonder how it works with the new Jeep Wranglers that have come out with the 3.0 diesel engines? Max torque on those engines is at 1400 rpm and they are set up to utilize all that torque at very low rpms (the diesel is available only with the 8 speed automatic). After a day of idling around the back country, with no opportunity to run the engine hard, is the DPF going to be clogged? Or does the DEF somehow help with that?

 

[rademamj1]

I was just looking through the Jeep Wranglers owners manual, and surprisingly Jeep has no discussion on the DPF emissions for the EcoDiesel in the manual and are very evasive regarding anything about emissions at all. Only mentioning in the manual, the DEF fluid needs to be changed at every oil change.

But to answer your question, it will take more than a week of driving off road, to create a DPF issue. But I would sure want to do some fast highway driving and clean out the DPF from time to time.

 

[the old grind]

We're not always using 'max torque' because max HP occurs at higher rpm, and is only utilized at that rpm. Slightly less torque at a higher rpm explains the disparity between max torque and max HP. (A minor acceptance of physical principles may help one to to understand this.)

Even without a carburetor or actual throttle a diesel engine is 'ported' and 'timed' to operate most efficiently in a certain rpm range, regardless of what we learned building gasoline engines. (and regardless if for street racing. ). With no load your diesel could easily rev to the moon if not governed in some way.

"Idle" is SO misunderstood. In a gas engine it's a "loafing" speed that keeps temps and oil splash or pump flow within design parameters. Most diesels can stay running at 600-800 rpm, but NOBODY should consider what results from 'backing a throttle off to its stop' is any indication of a 'healthy' no-load speed when at rest.

IMO we continue to defeat the advantage of "more HP" by running at lower rpm because we rarely use all of it!!! What used to be a 'wet stacking' hassle has become a 'regen' hassle. Please recognize if/when this is your beef with current 'Tier IV' BS.

All those guys sticking up for 'properly predicated' DPF fitment and 'regen' cycles are likely keeping their rpm between say 1300 and PTO rpm. IMO, like many artists they may not be recognized in their lifetime. All five stars, gents!

btw, props to rademamj1 for an education we dare not ignore. :thumbsup:

Lastly, apologies for the half pint of 'Captain' and resultant abject candor. t o g

 

[deserteagle71]

All those guys sticking up for DPF and regen cycles are likely keeping their rpm between say 1300 and PTO rpm. IMO, like many artists you may not be appreciated in your lifetime, :laughing:

btw, props to rademamj1 for an education we dare not ignore.

Guess it depends on what you do with your tractor. 99% of the time if I'm not using a PTO-powered implement then I am using the hydraulics. Either way, I have to keep the rpms up. With my old John Deere, the hydraulics are so slow if the rpms are low that it would take me a full minute just to curl the bucket on the front end loader. So I run it at a minimum of about 1500 rpms (and depending on what I'm doing, sometimes 2000+ rpm) so the hydraulics work efficiently. My dad's old David Brown 1200 had a funky power steering system - no rpm, no power steering!

 

[beenthere]

I usually idle the '68 JD 4300 3-cyl Yanmar around 12-1300 rpm.. and see no diff in hydraulics speed or power at higher rpm's..
Don't like to run at higher rpm so would not be a happy camper with the new rpm requirements. Like the fuel economy of my diesel now too.

 

[Tx Jim]

I usually idle the '68 JD 4300 3-cyl Yanmar .

Interesting I was employed at JD dealership in 1968 & I don't remember that JD model tractor being in existence.:laughing:

 

[beenthere]

Catch myself doing that and thought I had corrected it.. but is a '98. Even took me a moment to notice it when you pointed it out.. LOL tks for the catch

A Yanmar 3 cyl diesel may have been rare in those days too..

 

[Tx Jim]

IIRC JD 850 & 950 tractors built by Yanmar were introduced in late 1970's

 

[jeff9366]

Like the fuel economy of my diesel now.

I cannot comment specifically on your JD 4300 tractor but bear in mind changes Tier IV brought to diesel engines to make them burn 99% cleaner also made them more efficient and increased horsepower 2-horsepower to 4-horsepower over the previous Tier II and Tier III engines. Even factoring in stationary regeneration, I expect most Tier IV compliant tractors have improved fuel economy over predecessor Tier II/III models.

The DPF only deals with the small fuel particulates still expelled by the 99% cleaner engines.

My Kubota regenerates routinely every 60 engine hours in warm Florida. 60 engine hours = 3,600 engine minutes.
Stationary regeneration, which is about 60% of my regenerations because I work in the woods, takes consistently 16 minutes in warm Florida.

16 / 3,600 = .0044 = .44% engine time used in stationary regeneration. (Less than 1/2 of 1%)

 

[rademamj1]

Jeff9366. Your absolutely right about Tier4 diesels and the horsepower increases. Tier4 emmissions changes which were fully implemented by year 2015, has forced many tractor manufacturers to update and greatly improve their diesel engines.

Some of that is diesel tuning by the computer increasing overall efficiency, and then the fuel system injectors technology has so greatly improved last 10 years, that diesels today use much less fuel. It won't be long before we get turbocharged tractors....not for tractor pulls, but for daily work.

I read last week, that Kioti (Dadong) is experimenting with ultra reliable low pressure Isuzu made turbochargers, that give a 12% boost in horsepower, with only a 1% increase in fuel usage. These mini sized turbochargers are designed to last the life of the engine or 8000 hours, whichever comes first. So far has not been implemented due to cost issues.

Tractors today are so well made, that major maintenance issues can often be done by the owner. I grew up in dairy country of New York and Pennsylvania, and as a kid, i watched my uncles "split their tractors" in the field almost every other year with the dealership mechanic onsite as the advisor. Just like clockwork, about every 500 hrs, you split your tractor for major maintenance and repairs. Those older tractors did not have Tier4 emmissions, but they also were not as reliable as tractors today.