Mowing Mowing on complex hills --- HELP!!!

[MikeFromVA]

I'm a new tractor owner who finally got to do some mowing on my brand new lawn. I live on a fairly hilly lot and I know that I should not mow across a hill but that isn't always possible. What about when the hill slopes two ways?

I don't know if it is because I am new to tractors, but these spots really increase my "pucker factor".

I just ordered the tilt meter, but should I be trying to find another method to mow my lawn? Notice that some of the slopes go all the way to the house so turning becomes an issue also. Would it be better without the FEL? Anything else I can do to make it safer? Or am I just worried over nothing and I'll get used to it?

 

[beenthere]

To me, the slopes you have are not too steep to worry about tipping over. I would worry more about tearing up the grass and sod with the tires trying to gain traction (looks like that has been a problem already).

If me, I'd get something the size of an X series or smaller (because that is what I have), and use each machine for what it does best.

Nice place you have there, and some terrraces may be in order for your future enjoyment and lawn care.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Mike, your 4110 would be similar in size to my TC24 and I think that if I had the slopes you have, I would probably be pretty comfortable AFTER about a summer of mowing. I can understand your pucker factor, but I think that it is probably unfounded IF you do your best not to cross the slopes. I also have slopes, some steeper than yours, and I have flat spots too. I picked up a Ventrac 3000 for the slopes because it runs up/down/across them with zero puckering and a huge smile across my face. But I really picked it up because I have some steep spots that simply have nowhere for me to turn my larger tractors around and it would simply be foolish to run a CUT on some of slopes. You are fortunate in that you have pretty much wide open spaces so you can pick your climb and decline paths without worrying about too much.

It is much easier to mow with the FEL off. You might want to drop it once just to give it a try.

Also, because you do have compound slopes in some places, NEVER mow when the grass is wet because the tires will slip on the grass. I did a nice "fishtail" down a gentle slope one day that taught me to wait until the sun burns the dew off all the shady spots before going out to mow.

Seriously, you do have some steep patches there, but not too much for the 4110 if you are cautious. Personally I would like a smaller 4wd tractor like a sub-cut or a Steiner or a Ventrac for the slopes, but I really do think you can negotiate them safely given enough practice. The times when you are puckering is when you are being careful. The time for your wife to worry about you is when/if you stop puckering, because that is when you are likely to have a problem. Never let yourself become confident, always be wary of the slopes. A small rut in one of those slopes can change the attitude of your tractor from safe to on its side in about a heartbeat. Wear your seatbelt.

 

[MikeFromVA]

I'm hoping that I am over-reacting. I guess I'm a little worried about tipping after one side came up when I hit a rut with a full load in my FEL on Saturday. Fortunately, I lost most of the load and the tractor righted itself.

I'm also not too sure that the pics do the slopes justice. I will let you know when the tilt meter arrives how much I'm dealing with.

Is a smaller tractor better on the slopes? Should I have gone with a 2210?

 

[hazmat]

Are your tires loaded? Did you have counterweight on the three point. Both will make a huge difference regarding stability with the FEL.

Regarding mowing - definitely loose the FEL. Much easier & lower CG to boot.

Are your rear wheels "dished out" - check your owners manaul - on most tractors you can adjust the track width by swapping the wheels left for right.

2210 and X series aren't much narrower than your machine & are lower. Thus they will be more stable. By stable I mean that the tip over angle will be higher ie the point of no return. Personally I'd like to have a ROPS so the 2210 might be a better choice than the X.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Better on slopes is a function of the center of gravity of the tractor. A large tractor can have a lower COG than a small one, but generally the lower the ground clearance, the lower the COG is going to be (that is a broad stroke comment based on the tractors I am familiar with). I presume the 2210 has a lower COG than the 4110, it sure looks like it does. But COG is not the whole story because track width and length come into play as well. The fun slope machines like Steiner & Ventracs are closer to square with wheelbases that are wide and short (similar to a Jeep CJ or Wrangler).

As for the pictures, they are often hard to judge. I know my slopes look milder in photos than from the seat of a tractor! I've climbed my steepest - tallest hill with the TC24D, in low gear & 4wd it climbed it with ease, the problem is turning and the fact that it is a compound slope. I'd never take it down that slope. And it was harrowing getting off the top of the slope. So it probably won't be repeated. I don't know if you should have gotten the 2210, but I think you'll adjust to the 4410.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue">Is a smaller tractor better on the slopes? Should I have gone with a 2210? </font>

That is really a hard question to answer...

I do know that I will do figure eights on slopes with my BX2200 kubota that I would never get sideways on with my B2910 kubota due to the pucker factor...

But I don't know how much being lower to the ground on the BX2200 just makes it feel more stable. I need to measure my slopes again, but I am pretty sure they max out at about 20 degrees. 20 degrees on the larger tractor feels really steep! Feels less steep if I look at the flat operator's platform rather than elsewhere...

In fact, it could be that a smaller tractor just gives the illusion of greater stability/safety.

Even though my BX feels pretty stable on cross slopes, I still elected to foam fill my new front bar tires, and will liquid fill the new bar rears, just to add a little more insurance...

By the way, you can use a carpenter's level to measure slope angle...rise over run, and do the math calculation...

A tilt meter is a good idea. After you use it a while it will have less worth unless you are constantly finding yourself on new ground...but even though I have only 3.7 acres to deal with I find myself wishing I had one...at times...just to give me more confidence...when I am on safe slopes but puckering anyway... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

By the way, over reacting is not bad...better safe than sorry...

 

[Libertine]

MikeFromVA:

<font color="blue">I just ordered the tilt meter, but should I be trying to find another method to mow my lawn? </font>

Those slopes look easy . . . maybe 20 degrees M/L. Go slow and watch the uphill tires. I'll trade you slopes. I mowed yesterday some 45 degree slopes (small area, but used for drainage). No sweat going up or down or across. I use a 2 wheel walking tractor (BCS) with a PTO driven 38" deck for stuff like that. Will mow anything I can stand up on. There's a thread on this type of equipment in Buying forum.

JEH

 

[JDFANATIC]

Mike,

Lose the loader for mowing. You'll find the balance waay different. Also when using the loader, you should be cognizant of the proper ballasting--I know--just ask me why... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Mike, a couple other observations. As has been stated, see if you can dish out your tires to make the track wider. Low weight is always a good thing, so as Henro did fill the tires, it puts most of the weight below the frame.

On the vacant lot I bought next door to me, the land is mostly a gentle slope toward the woods, but there are a few bumps where the land drops about 5 or 6 feet and the TC24 can only climb those in low range with 4wd engaged, the B2910 needs low or mid with 4wd. But in the correct range, the climb is easy and controlled. Decending the same spots in hi range is a very short thrill ride, but decending in low range is easily controlled. I find a similar thing when I decend off the roadway to get down to my valley area, the drop is about 15 or 20 feet, the slope is probably a bit over 20 degrees, decending in high range is sort of like a free fall out of control ride and you better keep your foot on both brakes or something bad will happen, and stopping the tractor before hitting the thicket-like thorny Hawthorn tree line just beyond the base is imperitive. Now going down in low range requires just a gentle pressure on the brakes to easily decend. So I guess what I am trying to get to is make sure you are in the proper gear range on your slopes, and make sure you are in 4wd. Both will assist you on your slopes.

 

[mwood]

Mike:
Seeing as I'm looking for my first tractor right now, I have no actual experience in this area. However, I do have a lot of decently steep slopes on my property and when mowing them with a garden tractor, I've actually come very close to flipping... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My advice to you is what I told my wife (who won't mow my slopes by the way). If you dont' feel comfortable on them, don't mow them. I know this may not leave you any room for a learning curve here, but my theory is this... as you use your tractor around your house on routine home maintenance tasks, you'll gain an understanding of how everything works and just like driving a car, stopping, starting and steering will become second nature (as well as using the loader, etc..) I think you'll find that as you become more familiar with your machine, you'll start gaining confidence.

But please! If you don't feel safe YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE . Better to be considered a wimp than be considered a dead hero... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

mwood . . . since you are still in the looking stages, I would strongly suggest you consider Steiner or Ventrac. Given you have 13 acres, the Steiner 430Max or the Ventrac 4200 would be the machines to look at, they are their larger tractors, but still physically about the size of a larger sub-cut. But they are amazingly capable, can be oufitted with loaders, etc. These are not good machines for real farming, but excellent for all sorts of landscaping and gardening and will handle most slopes with ease. They are also very turf friendly, I've not been able to tear my turf on wet days when doing tight circles!

You JD is slighly smaller than my Cub Cadet, and I had 75# wheel weights and chains on the rear tires to gain traction, the front tires have foam for weight. What I can tell you is that my Cub would go places I won't take a taller CUT, but the Ventrac not only goes where the Cub went, it goes there with TOTAL confidence, absolute ease, and it does circles, u-turns and figure 8's on slopes that would have rolled over the Cub.

Another good choice is the Power Trac line of tractors. Not as good on slopes as the Steiners or Ventracs, but far more stable than any CUT on the planet. PT machines are more versitile than Steiners and Ventracs, being more of a Swiss Army Knife type of machine. They do everything, and much of it is done very well. I would say the mowers of the Steiners & Ventracs are better than anything else out there, the PT mowers are H.D. but seemingly not being in the same league as the Steiners or Ventracs for quality of cut.

 

[mwood]

Bob:
Not to steal the thread from the original poster, but I seriously considered those machines. I have since ruled them out for the following reasons:

Many parts of my land is muddy. And since I don't plan on going on the lawn with the new tractor, I think AG tires and more weight might be better.

I'll be looking to box blade / plow a lot of my pastures to replant. I know that a 1 bottom plow on a 30 hp machine will work, but I don't think any of the machines you mentioned will plow.

In an ideal world, i'd get a Ventrac for mowing and a CUT for field work, but I can't afford that. So... the wife and I compromised. The hard parts of the lawn to mow are going to be converted to tier gardens and we will continue to use the JD 216 to mow the flats. The rest of the land is going to be pasture for animals we will be getting next spring (lambs, pigs, small cow... who knows?)

Thanks for the helpful advise!

And now... back to our regularly scheduled thread...

 

[Bob_Skurka]

mwood, supposedly you can box blade with those brands, but personally it seems backwards to me. I can understand why you would rule them out based on what you wrote, I think the excercise of considering them probably opened your eyes other possibilities. One of the problems I think we get ourselves into is brand blindness or if not brand, then type of tractor. The fact that you considered them means you are considering all the choices out there.

Be VERY careful with the MORE WEIGHT is better arguement. On slopes that is far from true. Weight is good ONLY if it is in the right places! On a slope, I would want as much weight as possible UNDER the frame to keep it low. That means front filled tires or front wheel weights. That could mean rear filled tires. That could mean weights under the frame (there is cast iron attached to the underside of frame of the B2910 + filled tires). Wider track is better, taller is not. So be careful with the weight issue, in fact, on any slope, I'd probably opt for a lighter tractor over a heavier one and then add weight to where it is more beneficial.

 

[slowrev]

Bob,
You are absolutely right on the "more weight is better" attidude not being right on hills, excess weight uses gravity to pull you down the hill and can make you topheavy too for increased rollover risk.
My tractor climbs the hills much better when I remove the FEL and Weight bracket from the rear. About 3,500 lbs lighter and climbs better /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MikeFromVA]

My rear tires are loaded. I try to keep the FEL just above the ground to help keep the COG a little lower. It also makes me feel better when I'm going up a steep hill, more weight on the front. Guess it would take a heck of a hill to roll one front to back - but still feels like it could happen...

I will remove the FEL if it helps. I guess the COG is actually not improved when I lower it because the pivot point still bears all the weight...

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Mike, I mowed on Saturday with the FEL off, and then Sunday with it on. Feels like 2 different tractors. You might want to consider loading your front tires or adding EZ weights to the front wheels.

Just out of curiosity, are you using a MMM or a mower on the 3pt? A 3pt mower would lighten up the front end on your hills. A MMM will help with stability my giving you a lot of weight down very low.

 

[MikeFromVA]

I've got the 60" MMM - maybe I should weld some weights to it /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Well it would justify the purchase of a welder!!!

But seriously, try mowing with the loader off. Then tell us what you think.

 

[MikeFromVA]

Would switching to Industrial tires help (I have turfs now)?