My well water is terrible. Should I just use pool water?

[dodge man]

I think if you do research, you’ll find the amount of sodium it adds is minimal. The amount depends on the hardness but an example is a gallon of softened water has the same amount as half a cup of tomato juice.

 

[MossRoad]

Actually, they do add salt. We rented a cabin for interim living between forest fire home loss and relocating to new home. The was a notice in the manual similar to this:
'Water softeners add sodium to drinking water, which can be a concern for individuals on a low-sodium diet, particularly those with high blood pressure. However, for most healthy individuals, the sodium levels in softened water are generally considered safe.'
There are also studies, for what they're worth, that show long term drinking sodium treated water can lead to hypertension.
I can taste low amounts of salt in food, and it definitely adds salt. Not like a snorkel full while Abalone diving, but it was obvious to me.
Patrick

Just an FYI....

An 8 oz glass of 15 grain soft water has 4X LESS sodium than an 8 oz glass of skim milk.

 

[ponytug]

And, only about 30% of the population is "salt sensitive", that is responding to increased dietary sodium with slightly increased blood pressure. 10% of the population gets lower blood pressure with increasing sodium in the diet. So, perhaps not really relevant as a population wide public health recommendation, but one that may be important for certain individuals with kidney disease or high blood pressure.

All the best,

Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

Just now while reading your post, is when I learned that draining the hot water tank is a thing you're supposed to do. I've never done it once in my life. I've never heard anyone else mention that it's something they do either. I did not receive any handbook for being an adult and I'm just making this stuff up as I go along .

Thanks for pointing out the obvious (only obvious now that you mention it) reason for why my water heater is half full of minerals and likely beyond recovery. As soon as I get a new water heater, monthly draining will be on the calendar.

Not only are you supposed to drain a water heater regularly, they need the anode rods checked and replaced, unless you install an electronic anode. I replaced the crappy drain valves with a full port drain. This allows for full water pressure to evacuate all sludge build up in water heater. On my new waterheaters i added electronic anodes.

Residential

Discover the benefits of powered anode rods for your water heater. Learn how they work and why they're better than traditional magnesium or aluminum anode rods.

www.corroprotec.com

And fill port drains

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

An idea to increase your water quality and the need to have your pipes redone as frequently.

Put in a cistern before the filter. Have a drain that you can flush sediments monthly or as needed. Then pump the water from that to the filter. This would save you the sediment fiasco.

Not sure if there is a better pipe to use that inhibits plaque from building up on the pipe walls, that may also be something worth while to investigate. Filters are to help for sure.

I'd guess you could prove if it would help if you ran some water straight into a bucket, clear jar and look for trash/sediment in there.

 

[strantor]

Ok I got the $250 water test and the results are attached. It seems the reason for everything eroding is Clorides and it seems the only way to eliminate those is with a whole-home Reverse Osmosis system. I have gotten a quote, $16k. Not sure why it's that high?

Does this make sense? Cost seems really high. googling "how much does a whole home reverse osmosis system cost" yields dozens of results all suspiciously citing the same exact maximum number: $4,800. I suspect this means they are all plagiarized from one common ancestor that might be 20 years out of date, so I wouldn't be surprised if the real cost is higher, but $16k does seem excessive to me.

I do not think a settling tank, softener, or filter will help with the chlorides, please correct me if I'm wrong.

@Sportsman762 @ponytug @5030

 

[5030]

It's 'chlorides' btw. I use a Pentair 40 gallon settling comingling tank in my well water system that allows the chemicals my Pulsafeeder chemical injection pump to mix (comingle) with the raw well water, prior to it being used. In my case, the chemical I use precipitates the undesirable elements out of the water and they settle out in the tank. The Pentair tank is made from spun fiberglass strands epoxied together and lined with a plastic liner and the tank is bottom fed and top exit for the water. The bottom feed is also equipped with a blow down valve so I can remove almost all the precipitated elements out the bottom and into my sump crock. I also run a Cumo inline filter with 10 micron replaceable filters post tank before the treated water gets into my system. Between the Pentair tank and the filter, I can capture over 99% of anything and no need for an external softener or RO unit but your situation may vary. If I were you, I'd contact Aquascience in Rhode Island, they are the distributors for not only Pentair but many brands of Reverse Osmosis units, water softeners and associated systems are are very technically astute and helpful as well.

They also sell Pulsafeeder positive displacement injection pumps as well as chemical holding tanks and they can help you with your issue way better than anyone on this site can.

They have a rather hard to navigate website but they list their contact numbers there so you can call them.

 

[ponytug]

Ok I got the $250 water test and the results are attached. It seems the reason for everything eroding is Clorides and it seems the only way to eliminate those is with a whole-home Reverse Osmosis system. I have gotten a quote, $16k. Not sure why it's that high?

View attachment 3417088

Does this make sense? Cost seems really high. googling "how much does a whole home reverse osmosis system cost" yields dozens of results all suspiciously citing the same exact maximum number: $4,800. I suspect this means they are all plagiarized from one common ancestor that might be 20 years out of date, so I wouldn't be surprised if the real cost is higher, but $16k does seem excessive to me.

I do not think a settling tank, softener, or filter will help with the chlorides, please correct me if I'm wrong.

@Sportsman762 @ponytug @5030

It is good to see the attached water quality report. I think that data really helps decision making.

My takeaway from that report would be that in my opinion your well water has pretty high TDS (Total Dissolved Solids), with a fair amount of magnesium and calcium, in addition to a lot of salt in your water. Having calcium and magnesium means that an RO unit will absolutely require a softener pretreating the feed water.

So, you need a good whole house water filter.

Yes, using the well water as is will likely continue to generate corrosion in your pipes and hot water heater. A powered electrode in your water heater is likely a very helpful addition, even if you do whole house RO. Adding a water softener will reduce or eliminate the crud/precipitate in your water heater, but won't help corrosion. A water softener will help with crud in the water heater, but not with corrosion.

One possibility might be to use a whole house water softener, replacing pipes and fittings with PEX, a powered electrode in your water heater, and a small RO unit for drinking water. This would minimize the running costs.

I think that the whole house RO is a viable solution, but I would move to water efficient appliances (dishwasher and front loading washer), because there is a non-zero per gallon cost to RO, as sediment filters, charcoal filters, and RO membranes need periodic replacement, and you have to soften 4-5 times as much water. RO water can be hard on metal pipes as well because of the pH as it is usually a little acidic, and most whole house systems will do something like put the RO water in a concrete holding tank to neutralize the pH before it gets put in the house plumbing. I don't see a pH adjustment in your whole house quote. A whole house RO will use 4-5 times the amount of water that you are now using. That is because a 95% TDS reduction rate usually has around a 4 gallons to drain per gallon of product water, and that again adds to the cost per gallon of RO. And no, you can't take the reject water and run it through a second RO without lots of chemical monitoring.

https://wqa.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2019_RO.pdf

I do think the the DOW Filmtec RO membranes have superior performance and durability.

Reverse Osmosis (RO) | Water Solutions

Reverse osmosis (RO) is a pressure-driven separation processes that employs a semipermeable membrane and crossflow filtration.

www.dupont.com

I would want to see a more detailed breakout of the cost before commenting on it. Just for some perspective, a large whole house water softener (4-6cu.ft.) around here used to be used to be $2k-ish, plus installation, and a 1000gpd RO unit starts at about $900, but you need to add a prefilter and a pump. I've used this one in the past;

https://www.amazon.com/HydroLogic-EvolutionRO1000-High-Flow-Reverse-Osmosis/dp/B004LNUNKE

This is more of a complete unit;
1000 GPD PUMP DRIVEN COMMERCIAL RO $1,600
I've bought other items from them and their technical support has been excellent. The air water ice system above has the option of flush valves, and I would recommend getting them.

You would still need to add a RO storage tank to accommodate the high demand times of showers and washing, some float valves or water level monitor, and a booster pump to get the water from the RO tank up to normal 40psi water.

So, perhaps $4-5k in parts, plus labor, and then it is on you to service it. Personally, I enjoy that sort of thing, but I realize that it isn't for everyone.

If it were me, I'd buy a good large water softener, with a self flushing prefilter somewhere upstream, switch to all plastic PEX piping, add a powered anode for the hot water heater, and put in a 50gpd RO (from APEC or Air Water Ice, as I think that there are lots of less than great vendors out there) with a booster or permeate pump for drinking water, along with a 10 gallon RO storage tank, and call it good.

A large storage tank means that the RO can be run less frequently, increasing the delivered water quality; our system is under the sink, where I have an on/off valve to turn the feed water off after the RO has filled the tank, and on again when it runs out. Yes, a manual valve is more fiddling, but it gives us higher quality water.

At some point in a quote, I think that you have to allow for the cost of running a business having competent staff, and markups on stocking parts, etc, and being available to service your system. That all costs something. I would ask your vendor for recommendations that you could contact (especially commercial users), and then ask around at perhaps some of your local restaurants and chain restaurants what they use, and more importantly who they use.

All the best,

Peter

 

[5030]

The trials and tribulations concerning well water versus city water...lol

Problem is, oftentimes city water is as bad or worse than well water.

At least with city water, the TDS is most times less.

 

[ponytug]

The trials and tribulations concerning well water versus city water...lol

Problem is, oftentimes city water is as bad or worse than well water.

At least with city water, the TDS is most times less.

As required by law.