Need some advise, cutting a block wall to install a door........

[MotorSeven]

We recently bought a lakefront home and have turned it into an AirBnB. It has a full finished basement with two bedrooms, a bath, and a small one car garage in the finished walk out basement. There is only a old heavy roll up wood garage door, and a double window in the bedroom on the walkout side. My concern is fire and a difficult escape path. What I am going to do it remove the double window in the bedroom and cut the block to install a door. The opening will be 60.5" so I plan on a 36" door and a fixed glass in the remaining dead space. I already have a leftover framed 22" x 80 thermal pane from my log house build(one of 4 'oops' windows I had special ordered that were the wrong size). Anyway, it's the last one left, so even if I have to remove the frame to make it fit I want to use it.

Today I starting pulling off the interior trim to get a actual opening measurement. What I discovered is that there is no concrete Lintel over the window....

The house is 34 years old and does not have any foundation problems and I immediately looked above the garage door and don't think that they used a Lintel there either. Question one, is not using concrete Lintels and apparently making them out of wood acceptable? So, since the opening will be about 24"-ish larger than the door, I am concerned about the center upright/support between the glass and the door frame. Since I am tearing the window and associated supports out, should I remove the half blocks on each side at the top and install a Lintel of either wood, concrete? or steel?

I could also weld up a steel frame to fit into the opening with a off center support between the glass and door......just not sure which way to go and I do not want to cause any foundation issues when I cut this block all the way down to the slab and remove it.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Anytime you add steel, it will be stronger. At the least, a full thickness wood header would be in order.

 

[TnAndy]

Do the floor joist above run parallel (which is my guess, and what it looks like in the first pic--non load bearing) with the opening, or perpendicular to the opening (load bearing).

If it's non load bearing, you don't need anything.....just do what they did, fill in over the door with wood.

 

[Billrog]

Like TnAndy said or maybe they doubled up on the boxing joist using it for a header.

 

[MotorSeven]

Do the floor joist above run parallel (which is my guess, and what it looks like in the first pic--non load bearing) with the opening, or perpendicular to the opening (load bearing).

If it's non load bearing, you don't need anything.....just do what they did, fill in over the door with wood.

Yep Parallel. I must be ****, I used concrete Lintels w/rebar in em, then poured a 6" cap the width of my block all the way around at the top of my block walls. Leaving that open like they did gives me the hebejeebees.

Ok, so just cut below the window to the slab, jack hammer out the threshold.Then slap a framed door and side window in there?

 

[MotorSeven]

The existing windows in there are all messed up. Counter weights don't work and the poly frame is cracked all the way thru in a couple of places....makes me think they have some load on them from somewhere. The overhead deck outside(it's a Chalet style) also has parallel joists and one of them is right over the window.

The window is right above the chairs under the deck in this pic:

 

[MotorSeven]

And yes, when it warms up I am going to fix the deck 'dips' due to having a cantilever without proper support joists(way short and spliced in exactly the wrong place)

 

[jaxs]

When I removed 16' of exterior load bearing wall (roof rafters and ceiling joists resting on it) to expand my family room,I installed a laminated wood header. 20 years later with no movement. New homes often use double 2x12s above 16' garage doors but some sag in later years.

 

[dmottv]

I think your header questions are well answered. My experience was similar, sliding glass doors on the northwest lake end of the house. It is the cold side in the winter with the wind sweeping across the lake from southwest to northeast. I pulled the sliders, framed the openings for a 36 inch swing fiberglass door with insulated window in top half, and an insulated doublehung window in a framed wall beside each. It is the gable end with the joists running parallel above so I built the header with 2x6 and plywood sandwiched between. The door is much warmer now, the view is the same, and there has been no deflection above in 20 years.

 

[TnAndy]

Yep Parallel. I must be ****, I used concrete Lintels w/rebar in em, then poured a 6" cap the width of my block all the way around at the top of my block walls. Leaving that open like they did gives me the hebejeebees.

Not ****.....maybe a bit overkill......but hard to even say that about good solid construction.

Ok, so just cut below the window to the slab, jack hammer out the threshold.Then slap a framed door and side window in there?

Given there does seem to be some pressure from above that may have cracked the window, you might want to get at least a vertical stud beside the wall and as much of a wood header above the proposed door as you can get for some reassurance, but yeah, other than that cut out below and whatever you have to do to get it in.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Not ****.....maybe a bit overkill......but hard to even say that about good solid construction.




Given there does seem to be some pressure from above that may have cracked the window, you might want to get at least a vertical stud beside the wall and as much of a wood header above the proposed door as you can get for some reassurance, but yeah, other than that cut out below and whatever you have to do to get it in.

Maybe overkill and **** but I would put in some bracing/jack studs before knocking anything out. Hard to tell from the picture if the porch roof and deck load is being transferred onto the front wall.

 

[jfh28]

as others have said it all depends on if it is load bearing or not......so you need to determine how the loads from above are being transferred down......if there aren't any then it just needs to carry the wall load above and ancillary floor and roof loads as well as perpendicular wind loads on the wall.......if you are on a lake that could be something to look into.......that is a fairly easy calculation for a structural engineer to figure out for you.......I definitely do not like the single stud supporting the header especially for a door.......should be doubled at a minimum.......personally I like your method that it should have been a masonry lintel......like materials in a wall always work better and tie things together.......and make sure they did not run any masonry on top of the wood lintel.....if they did then that changes everything......Jack

 

[MotorSeven]

Maybe overkill and **** but I would put in some bracing/jack studs before knocking anything out. Hard to tell from the picture if the porch roof and deck load is being transferred onto the front wall.

Will do, all the other member suggestions are appreciated. Going to tackle it on monday.....will update then!

 

[Stimw]

I would fabricate a metal lintel and extend it into the concrete block wall.
The concrete fit up and finish work would be very simple.

 

[MotorSeven]

I am still kicking that around. The only problem is the time it will take to weld it all up and get it installed.....meanwhile there will be a huge hole in the wall....lol.

 

[GLyford]

I replaced a 6' sliding door with a swing door and a smaller sash window. Inspector was fine with using the existing door header across the combined opening.

It looks like your existing header is supported with jack studs to make the rough opening. As long as whatever header you end up with is also supported, I don't see a problem with what you propose. One or two addition jack studs between the door and window would not be an issue. I will dig to see if I can find my framing pics.

 

[GLyford]

Rough frame...

Note fill-in section to the left of the door. Also, the inspector was fine with removing 1/2" from the bottom edge of the header because the new door RO was that much taller than the slider. Wall plate rests directly on the header (7'8" walls) so there wasn't room to move it higher.

Trimmed out, went with a victorianesque style because it amused me.


Opening at bottom right is for a dog door. The end of the counter laps over the dog door a fraction.


Other end of the same wall we replaced a double window (much like yours) with a 5' french door, which leads out to an enclosed porch. While I would hesitate to use a french door on an actual outside wall since they have a reputation for not sealing well, there is another layer of windows and door (in fact, the same slider we removed above, since it wasn't that old). On very windy days, there is still a draft, so it seems ours are meeting expectations.

 

[GLyford]

Oh, and two studs between the door and window meant that there was the exact correct amount of space for the trim to fit back-to-back with a 1/4" reveal, though if you only had room for one you could go with a flat or other profile for that section. With your existing opening, I suspect you could use thinner spacers (or even shims) between your jack studs and blocks to get a bit more room if you need it. I am sure you've already thought of that.

 

[PILOON]

Bit off topic but,
Once I had to install a door and frame in a cinder block wall.
Attaching the door frame was a problem as ramset nails wold split the blocks and concrete screws were very 'touch and go' to say the least.
I then got a brain wave,
I placed the frame as plumb as possible and use a few tins of spray insulation foam to 'glue' the frame in place.
That was 12 years ago ant that door frame still is just great.

One caution is to firmly brace the frame width wise as that foam exerts a lot of pressure until it is fully cured.

 

[aczlan]

Bit off topic but,
Once I had to install a door and frame in a cinder block wall.
Attaching the door frame was a problem as ramset nails wold split the blocks and concrete screws were very 'touch and go' to say the least.
I then got a brain wave,
I placed the frame as plumb as possible and use a few tins of spray insulation foam to 'glue' the frame in place.
That was 12 years ago ant that door frame still is just great.

One caution is to firmly brace the frame width wise as that foam exerts a lot of pressure until it is fully cured.

They now make a low expansion "gaps and cracks" sprayfoam just for that purpose. That is what they used when they replaced our windows. 4 screws to hold it still and sprayfoam all around to lock it in place.

Aaron Z