Neighbors tractor broke from towing up hill ?

[duke7595]

My neighbors tractor, a J.D. 2020 gas stalled at the bottom of his driveway and would not start. He asked me to tow it up the hill to his house, the tractor has a loader
so it had to be towed from the back (reverse).

Upon towing it he heard a loud noise and the clutch, he had depressed went to the floorboard. The tractor was out of gear when we towed it, and I guess he had the clutch depressed as a added precaution.
He jacked up the rear end and was able to turn the wheels easily in neutral , we than put it in gear, it was more difficult to turn the wheels but they would turn.
Also the clutch pedal is not right, you have to pull it up after you depress it.

I feel bad for him because I towed it. Any ideas what might be wrong with it ?

 

[jd110]

Hard to say exactly what happened for sure. One thing for sure, if it was really in neutral, nothing could have happened to the clutch while towing. Maybe he didn't really have it in neutral. How fast did you tow it? If in a low gear and the clutch is held in, the disk spins extremely fast and can disintegrate due to the excess centrfugal force. To make it simple, let's say that in 1st gear, the tractor travels at 1 mph at 2000 engine rpm. If you tow it in 1st gear at 10 mph, the clutch disk will spin at 20,000 rpm. It will definitely fly apart. The same thing can happen if you drift while in a low gear. Lets say you are in low gear going up a steep hill or embankment and then push in the clutch and drift backwards while still in a forward gear. Even if you only drift back at 5 mph for an instant, that can be enough to explode the clutch disk. Seen it happen many times.

 

[Soundguy]

maybee something happened to it and that is why it stalled and would not start.

 

[pjbci]

Sounds like "jd110" is on to something. Whatever the problem, your not at fault.

 

[duke7595]

maybee something happened to it and that is why it stalled and would not start.

It started up once we got up the hill, one other thing, with the rear jacked up all the gears engaged without any problem, but it don't even try to spin the tires.
Also, I towed it slowly no more than 3 or 4 mph tops.
What you said about the spinning of the clutch make a lot of sense, I never realized how much difference there is in the speed it turns.

 

[duke7595]

Hard to say exactly what happened for sure. One thing for sure, if it was really in neutral, nothing could have happened to the clutch while towing. Maybe he didn't really have it in neutral. How fast did you tow it? If in a low gear and the clutch is held in, the disk spins extremely fast and can disintegrate due to the excess centrfugal force. To make it simple, let's say that in 1st gear, the tractor travels at 1 mph at 2000 engine rpm. If you tow it in 1st gear at 10 mph, the clutch disk will spin at 20,000 rpm. It will definitely fly apart. The same thing can happen if you drift while in a low gear. Lets say you are in low gear going up a steep hill or embankment and then push in the clutch and drift backwards while still in a forward gear. Even if you only drift back at 5 mph for an instant, that can be enough to explode the clutch disk. Seen it happen many times.

I'm sorry I quoited in the wrong box this reply is meant for you sir,
It started up once we got up the hill, one other thing, with the rear jacked up all the gears engaged without any problem, but it don't even try to spin the tires.
Also, I towed it slowly no more than 3 or 4 mph tops.
What you said about the spinning of the clutch make a lot of sense, I never realized how much difference there is in the speed it turns

 

[Tx Jim]

Pop off the inspection cover on clutch housing and look inside. A PP operating finger bolt could have broken.

 

[texasjohn]

Can't see how you are at fault though I understand the concern for what happened. Truly In neutral with clutch engaged, I can't see how any power from rear wheels was being transferred to drive train... I might have done exactly that. His tractor, him in the seat, am sure you were pulling slowly...it doesn't compute, something mechanical out of your control was going on inside his tractor as you pulled it, at his request.

 

[s219]

Maybe the clutch linkage broke prior to towing. I definitely like jd110's theory. Sounds like your neighbor really did not have it in neutral.

 

[ovrszd]

Yeah, I'm guessing it wasn't in neutral. I exploded a clutch on a rock truck one day exactly as explained by jd110. Had the truck in low gear, disengaged clutch and let truck coast backwards down a hill for about 100 yards at approximately 6-8 mph. Destroyed the clutch..... Really made me feel stupid and cost me a lot of money, tow bill, lost work, clutch rebuild....

 

[kevin37b]

You pulled it from the back , correct ? If it was in gear , the only gear it could have been in was reverse . If clutch was not disengaged it would pull very hard or drag wheels . If it was in gear with clutch disengaged , the transmission and the gear it is in is out of the picture . Sounds like pilot bearing or pressure plate as mentioned . That 20 series utility tractor is one of JD's biggest flops . I don't know where this other theory comes from , but I need to read that book .

 

[kevin37b]

Hard to say exactly what happened for sure. One thing for sure, if it was really in neutral, nothing could have happened to the clutch while towing. Maybe he didn't really have it in neutral. How fast did you tow it? If in a low gear and the clutch is held in, the disk spins extremely fast and can disintegrate due to the excess centrfugal force. To make it simple, let's say that in 1st gear, the tractor travels at 1 mph at 2000 engine rpm. If you tow it in 1st gear at 10 mph, the clutch disk will spin at 20,000 rpm. It will definitely fly apart. The same thing can happen if you drift while in a low gear. Lets say you are in low gear going up a steep hill or embankment and then push in the clutch and drift backwards while still in a forward gear. Even if you only drift back at 5 mph for an instant, that can be enough to explode the clutch disk. Seen it happen many times.[/
This should be in the book for safety concerns . I really do not understand your theory but am willing to learn .

 

[ovrszd]

Kevin, I think jd110 explained it very well. Much better than I. But like him,,,, I have saw this type of failure.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said "If it was in gear with clutch disengaged, the transmission and the gear it is in is out of the picture"?

If the transmission is in any gear, the clutch is disengaged, and the vehicle is moved by pulling, coasting, pushing, whatever, the only thing that is out of the picture is the pressure plate and engine. Everything else, i.e., transmission gears, powertrain, etc., is turning. If the vehicle is moving at a ground speed much faster than the selected gear can normally propell the vehicle then the parts are turning at a much faster rate of speed than designed to endure.

On my rock truck the clutch disc completely exploded. The bellhousing was full of shrapnell and clutch disc pieces. It was ugly, and expensive. A mistake I never made again.

I'm not saying that's what happened to the OPs tractor, I'm just saying I've experienced this destruction.

 

[duke7595]

I sure want to thank everyone for the input, my neighbor had it hauled to the local tractor mechanic this morning and I will post what happened to
it as soon as I know something.
I really feel bad for him and hope the repairs don't get to expensive.

 

[sd455dan]

Kevin, I think jd110 explained it very well. Much better than I. But like him,,,, I have saw this type of failure.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said "If it was in gear with clutch disengaged, the transmission and the gear it is in is out of the picture"?

If the transmission is in any gear, the clutch is disengaged, and the vehicle is moved by pulling, coasting, pushing, whatever, the only thing that is out of the picture is the pressure plate and engine. Everything else, i.e., transmission gears, powertrain, etc., is turning. If the vehicle is moving at a ground speed much faster than the selected gear can normally propell the vehicle then the parts are turning at a much faster rate of speed than designed to endure.

On my rock truck the clutch disc completely exploded. The bellhousing was full of shrapnell and clutch disc pieces. It was ugly, and expensive. A mistake I never made again.

I'm not saying that's what happened to the OPs tractor, I'm just saying I've experienced this destruction.

Exactly- the clutch disc is splined to the transmission input shaft, so if the transmission is in gear (any gear) the disc WILL spin, at whatever ratio the selected gearing is at...assuming the clutch is depressed, Otherwise the the rear tires would have skidded.

Now if the tractor was not in gear (as stated), the input shaft would be stationary- therefore no effect on the clutch assembly...

So it does not sound as if towing caused the failure , because, as he said- it was not in gear.. sounds like a freak failure, it does happen sometimes.

 

[ovrszd]

So it does not sound as if towing caused the failure , because, as he said- it was not in gear.. sounds like a freak failure, it does happen sometimes.

It sure does!!!! Heheheheh.

 

[duke7595]

I talked to my neighbor today and he asked me to take a ride with him to the tractor repair shop, the mechanic had finally split the tractor and removed the
clutch and pressure plate.

Wow, the clutch was fragmented into tiny pieces, I could n;t believe what I was looking at, The mechanic Jack, also showed him the pressure plate
and said he should replace this as well, it has 3 fingers on it with springs that he says are weak.
Jack also told him that it was a odd ball plate and he has not been able to locate one as of yet,
He further stated that J.D. used many different parts in the 1020 series. I will let everyone know what the final cost
is for the parts and repairs.

 

[Tx Jim]

To my knowledge JD offered mainly only 3 different clutch/PP setups. one for dual stage clutch,one for transmission driven pto & one for hyd ind pto. Very rarely did ag tractors have hyd reverser

 

[duke7595]

To my knowledge JD offered mainly only 3 different clutch/PP setups. one for dual stage clutch,one for transmission driven pto & one for hyd ind pto. Very rarely did ag tractors have hyd reverser

Tx Jim,

Thank you I will pass it on to the neighbor, By the way, he is thinking of just replacing the clutch, the mechanic said he will do what he wants, but won't
guarantee it.

duke

 

[Tx Jim]

If PP still has good spring tension,gripping face is smooth and fingers aren't worn then current PP will probably be just fine. If you'll post what type pto 2020 has and if it has hyd hi-lo I can post clutch part numbers.