New 5055E

[vtsnowedin]

I also had hose clamps loosen up at about thirty hours but once I got them all settled in and snugged up I haven't lost anymore coolant.

 

[LoudonNH]

Another update on the brakes:

After sending a mechanic down to look at the brakes again, this is what the service manager wrote to me:

"The process was to install a pressure gauge on left side, apply the brake and hold it at what would be operating pressure for 1 minute ,release and repeat on right side. It was to make sure everything was seated properly. If pressure didn't hold then there would be an issue with the brake system."

So apparently it doesn't matter that the pedals go to the floor as long as the pressure holds (at whatever unspecified pressure it was at) and the dealer and John Deere are done with this problem and I'm on my own. That being the case, I contacted my insurance carrier who assured me I would be covered in the event of any accident as a result of the problem with the brakes. He did however, also say that the information I provided would be useful for the carrier to subrogate a claim against John Deere if I ever have an accident.

I have been a loyal John Deere customer from the time I bought my very first tractor. This will probably be my last. I like the tractor very much in many ways and it suits my needs perfectly. But I will not spend this kind of money to support a manufacturer that appears to have no pride in its products. At this point, I'm considering disposing of it before the warranty is over and buying a Massey, which was my second choice. Better yet, I could probably find a 10-15 year-old Deere that's better made than anything Deere is producing today...

I do not have the time or temperament to initiate a lawsuit against John Deere on my own over this, but if a group of you want to collectively address this problem in some way I'd be with you. To me, this is not much different than GM continuing to sell cars with defects until people got hurt.

These brakes are not safe and John Deere is being negligent in not repairing them to work the same as on any other tractor.

Not happy.

 

[beenthere]

There is something else going on here, IMO, that you and the service manager are missing the point of the brake failure.
I don't know what it is, but it is evident in the response quoted from the service manager.

And I don't think this is as much a John Deere issue, but is a customer/dealer issue. Hope you get the problem solved.

 

[beenthere]

There is something else going on here, IMO, that you and the service manager are missing the point of the brake failure.
I don't know what it is, but it is evident in the response quoted from the service manager.

And I don't think this is as much a John Deere issue, but is a customer/dealer issue. Hope you get the problem solved.

 

[doxford jim]

I agree whole heartedly, the brakes are supposed to work when needed - not when you have gone through the routine of pumping them several times. I wonder if the DOT would be interested in a manufacturer that puts out vehicles to drive on the public road, with brakes that are more than suspect !!! Wouldn't do any harm to contact them to see what they think.

I would be livid if it was me that had forked out $40,000 for a tractor and the brakes were iffy at best. Something is wrong and needs to be publicly admitted and a solution found.

 

[ovrszd]

Another update on the brakes:

After sending a mechanic down to look at the brakes again, this is what the service manager wrote to me:

"The process was to install a pressure gauge on left side, apply the brake and hold it at what would be operating pressure for 1 minute ,release and repeat on right side. It was to make sure everything was seated properly. If pressure didn't hold then there would be an issue with the brake system."

So apparently it doesn't matter that the pedals go to the floor as long as the pressure holds (at whatever unspecified pressure it was at" and the dealer and John Deere are done with this problem and I'm on my own. That being the case, I contacted my insurance carrier who assured me I would be covered in the event of any accident as a result of the problem with the brakes. He did however, say that the information I provided would be useful for the carrier to surrogate a claim against John Deere if I ever have an accident.

I have been a loyal John Deere customer from the time I bought my very first tractor. This will probably be my last. I like the tractor very much in many ways and it suits my needs perfectly. But I will not spend this kind of money to support a manufacturer that appears to have no pride in its products. At this point, I'm considering disposing of it before the warranty is over and buying a Massey, which was my second choice. Better yet, I could probably find a 10-15 year-old Deere that's better made than anything Deere is producing today...

I do not have the time or temperament to initiate a lawsuit against John Deere on my own over this, but if a group of you want to collectively address this problem in some way I'd be with you. To me, this is not much different than GM continuing to sell cars with defects until people got hurt.

These brakes are not safe and John Deere is being negligent in not repairing them to work the same as on any other tractor.

Not happy.

Well stated.

If you display half the maturity in your communications with your dealer that you displayed in this post then JD and your dealer aren't serving your interests very well.

I agree concerning a lawsuit. JD knows you don't have the resources or energy to go after them about this. Same as your reference to GM.

Someone is going to have a dreadful accident with one of these tractors that is having the brake problem. It's inevitable.

As I said earlier, I could not use my tractor in this condition. I'd have to replace it.

Sorry for your problems and thanks for communicating them on this thread.

 

[vtsnowedin]

My 5045E built in Pune India in the summer of 2012 (serial # ends in B002442) has good brakes. There is about 2- 1/2 inches of travel on first stroke and full brake lock up in the next half inch. They do pump up on a second stroke but as they work on the first stroke I never pump them. I wonder if there is a part number difference between this tractor and your 5055E or if they are just installing the same parts differently. One way or the other there ought to be a way to correct the problem short of starting over.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Another update on the brakes:

After sending a mechanic down to look at the brakes again, this is what the service manager wrote to me:

"The process was to install a pressure gauge on left side, apply the brake and hold it at what would be operating pressure for 1 minute ,release and repeat on right side. It was to make sure everything was seated properly. If pressure didn't hold then there would be an issue with the brake system."

So apparently it doesn't matter that the pedals go to the floor as long as the pressure holds (at whatever unspecified pressure it was at) and the dealer and John Deere are done with this problem and I'm on my own. That being the case, I contacted my insurance carrier who assured me I would be covered in the event of any accident as a result of the problem with the brakes. He did however, also say that the information I provided would be useful for the carrier to subrogate a claim against John Deere if I ever have an accident.

I have been a loyal John Deere customer from the time I bought my very first tractor. This will probably be my last. I like the tractor very much in many ways and it suits my needs perfectly. But I will not spend this kind of money to support a manufacturer that appears to have no pride in its products. At this point, I'm considering disposing of it before the warranty is over and buying a Massey, which was my second choice. Better yet, I could probably find a 10-15 year-old Deere that's better made than anything Deere is producing today...

I do not have the time or temperament to initiate a lawsuit against John Deere on my own over this, but if a group of you want to collectively address this problem in some way I'd be with you. To me, this is not much different than GM continuing to sell cars with defects until people got hurt.

These brakes are not safe and John Deere is being negligent in not repairing them to work the same as on any other tractor.

Not happy.

I just got here, and have only read the post of yours I quoted, but writing as as a former auto tech, be aware that master cylinders on cars and trucks typically have two pistons. Should one piston's seal fail, the brake pedal will travel closer to the floor as the working piston takes up the additional volume of fluid in order to build pressure in the entire brake system and compensate for the failed piston. After taking up slack from a failed piston, the single, working piston and then gives the operator a firm, steady, hard pedal. I do not expect that people working in a tractor dealer and not rebuilding master cylinders to fully understand the redundant safety built into master cylinders, and I really do not expect a service manager (unless he is a former heavy truck or car tech who went to tech school) to know this either. In other words, non-tradesmen managers tend to believe their techs while the techs themselves may not be trained. The low-brow technical capabilities of service shops because of manager technical expertise happens all the time in the new auto-dealer space (largely because the best techs leave to go work at independent shops where they tend to make more money and the manager isn't aware of their shop's own lack of expertise).

If all 5055 pedals don't travel to the floor like yours, then I suspect that one piston seal has failed in your tractor's master cylinder and that the remedy is to travel to a different Deere dealer (or call ahead and talk to the service manager to discuss your problem and make arrangements) and replace your master cylinder.

 

[sixdogs]

If other tractor brakes perform normally and do not have the same problems as yours, there is a problem with yours. That would be hard to argue. If it were me, and it's not, I would contact Deere directly and go over the problem and how to fix it. I would probably send a certified, return receipt requested letter to get started, detailing the problem, the risks and unsatisfaction noted and what you want done. You want it fixed to be safe. I would keep talking and asking questions until I got a good answer. Then, if I wasn't happy I would maybe sell the tractor and buy something more reliable.

But, I'd bet your brake problem can be fixed.

Any polling here of other, or similar 5055E owners? There must be enough of them here to form some sort of a baseline.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree with Eric.

I don't even accept vtsnowedin's situation as normal. After this thread started I played with my Kubota's brakes. It uses a master cylinder to control the power oil brakes. My pedal position does not change between the first stroke and subsequent strokes. No one can convince me that is normal behavior. At least in his case he does have brakes on the first push. But that's still not normal for a properly functioning brake system.

Would you accept that in your new car or truck??

 

[vtsnowedin]

I agree with Eric.

I don't even accept vtsnowedin's situation as normal. After this thread started I played with my Kubota's brakes. It uses a master cylinder to control the power oil brakes. My pedal position does not change between the first stroke and subsequent strokes. No one can convince me that is normal behavior. At least in his case he does have brakes on the first push. But that's still not normal for a properly functioning brake system.

Would you accept that in your new car or truck??

Perhaps part of this is many here have never driven a car with anything less then vacuum assisted "power" brakes. My tractors brakes feel just lie my first cars which was a 62 Plymouth.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Perhaps part of this is many here have never driven a car with anything less then vacuum assisted "power" brakes. My tractors brakes feel just lie my first cars which was a 62 Plymouth.

Even without power assist disk brakes are going to give provide more braking with less pedal effort because the master cylinder isn't pressing the shoes out into the drum like your 62 Plymouth.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Even without power assist disk brakes are going to give provide more braking with less pedal effort because the master cylinder isn't pressing the shoes out into the drum like your 62 Plymouth.

Yes but the old drum brakes when properly adjusted worked fine. The advantage of the disks were that they self adjusted with a lot fewer parts.
I can't say I have any real insight as to why wet disk brakes on a modern tractor need much of any pedal travel between on and off.

 

[deere5105]

I have noticed on my JD 5303 that my left brake pedal seems to go further down now than it used to. On the second application it travels much less. Mine is a 2008 and no warranty involved so I just deal with it and move on. Never noticed it on the right pedal.

 

[fieldman12]

My 5055E goes down farther the second time. According to dealer they had issues where the brakes where not releasing on past models. Mine stops even on the first push. I am use to it so no big deal to me.

 

[ovrszd]

Yes but the old drum brakes when properly adjusted worked fine. The advantage of the disks were that they self adjusted with a lot fewer parts.
I can't say I have any real insight as to why wet disk brakes on a modern tractor need much of any pedal travel between on and off.

Yeah, that was my point. I'll try to remember to measure my pedal travel. I'm gonna guess 1-2" then I have solid braking. Same distance traveled every time with no gain to pumping. And never any doubt as to the result of pushing the pedal. I think that's how a system should work. Uniformity regardless of amount of movement. Just be dependable.

 

[LoudonNH]

Yeah, that was my point. I'll try to remember to measure my pedal travel. I'm gonna guess 1-2" then I have solid braking. Same distance traveled every time with no gain to pumping. And never any doubt as to the result of pushing the pedal. I think that's how a system should work. Uniformity regardless of amount of movement. Just be dependable.

I agree Richard.

My complaint is not about the pedal travel specifically. I would accept full braking at a consistent amount of pedal travel on the first and subsequent pushes. As it is, each push delivers a different effect. I find myself tapping the pedals every few seconds to keep the braking system "charged" and at the ready.

What it comes down to is that I cannot imagine this is the braking effect Deere set out to design and install on its 5E tractors. It appears to be a failed design and a failed system. Perhaps Deere is simply waiting for the tractors with this problem to die-off over the years and deal with claims on a case-by-case basis, rather than acknowledging the inherent problem and fixing it for everyone.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree Richard.

My complaint is not about the pedal travel specifically. I would accept full braking at a consistent amount of pedal travel on the first and subsequent pushes. As it is, each push delivers a different effect. I find myself tapping the pedals every few seconds to keep the braking system "charged" and at the ready.

What it comes down to is that I cannot imagine this is the braking effect Deere set out to design and install on its 5E tractors. It appears to be a failed design and a failed system. Perhaps Deere is simply waiting for the tractors with this problem to die-off over the years and deal with claims on a case-by-case basis, rather than acknowledging the inherent problem and fixing it for everyone.

Oh man, that stresses me just reading your description of how you try to keep it activated by tapping the pedal. I'm on steep terrain a lot. I'm afraid I'd forget once and end up over the side of a deep ravine.

I agree with your assessment concerning JDs intent.

 

[JMER817]

Trailer your JD to the dealer and park at the front entrance. As potential customers come tell them that you hope they are not looking to buy a 5000 series tractor. Explain the brake problems that you are having. Management will come out to talk to you. Explain to them your concerns with safety and overall dissatisfaction with your situation. They will ask you to leave. Have on speed dial the local newspaper. Call them as management is in front of you. Tell management that the only way you will be satisfied is by them buying back your tractor for what you paid them for.

 

[Jim Timber]

Sounds like the self-adjusting mechanism isn't retaining it's most recent travel position.

My brakes are longer first pump than second, but the first pump is well before reaching the floor and I have good brake performance (tractor stops with first pump). The second pump, if done within a few minutes of the first, is much shorter.

Maybe I'll have to take a look at the parts diagrams to see if I can tell how they self-adjust. Vacuum assisted disk brakes limit travel by preventing the piston from being retracted more than the master can fill them to achieve pressure. As such, they only back off a short distance when released. My hunch is that whatever JD designed to disengage them has enough force to overcome whatever mechanism is supposed to keep them in close enough proximity to the rotors - and this could be a flaw in the solution they came up with for the previous failure to release issue.