Macinnis
Gold Member
I am just telling you what my Morton guy said. No warranty with spray foam, unless the spray foam is applied to tyvek.
new barn design help
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
How do you get the tyvek, or house wrap, to stick to the metal? Seems like a huge issue down the road if you spray the foam to the tyvek. I'm guessing that they want the tyvek installed before the metal goes on? Wrap the framing, then install the siding? None of this makes any sense.
Closed cell foam is used for boat docks. Closed cell foam is water proof. Closed cell foam sticks to everything it is sprayed to with zero openings. Not only does it give you a very high R value, it also stops wind and any potential leaks. If you can afford it, nothing else comes close to closed cell foam.
I think the Morton guy was mistaken and I would push the issue with them on this. Talk to somebody else if you are going to buy from Morton.
If you use open cell foam, there has to be some sort of barrier between the foam and the siding or roofing. It will rot out OSB and plywood if it's applied directly to those materials. It will rust out metal if it's applied directly to metal siding or roofing. Open cell foam hold moisture. Open cell foam will become wet just from humidity over time. Open cell foam never dries out once it gets wet. It is a lot cheaper, but it causes so many issues that it should only be used when everything is done specifically for it's use. I would never use it for anything, but I have read up on their websites on how it's supposed to be applied.
I had a client that wanted to buy and $800,000 home a couple years ago. She is a widow with the money to pay cash and this was just to live closer to her friends. She also has a very large house on the lake. She hired me to spend the day with her looking at the house and give her my opinion on what it would change a few things and make any repairs that where needed. The house was only 2 years old and the shingles where already falling apart. At first glance, the roof looked like it had been there 30 years. Rock was coming off the shingles, the corners where curling up and there was fungus darkening the roof. Inside the attic, there was 2 feet of open cell foam sprayed directly on the OSB roof decking. I pulled a little away to show her the damage, and the OSB was coming apart with mold growing on it. That house is still for sale, and the price is now a lot lower, but nobody is looking at it because of how bad that roof looks for an almost new house.
Closed cell foam is used for boat docks. Closed cell foam is water proof. Closed cell foam sticks to everything it is sprayed to with zero openings. Not only does it give you a very high R value, it also stops wind and any potential leaks. If you can afford it, nothing else comes close to closed cell foam.
I think the Morton guy was mistaken and I would push the issue with them on this. Talk to somebody else if you are going to buy from Morton.
If you use open cell foam, there has to be some sort of barrier between the foam and the siding or roofing. It will rot out OSB and plywood if it's applied directly to those materials. It will rust out metal if it's applied directly to metal siding or roofing. Open cell foam hold moisture. Open cell foam will become wet just from humidity over time. Open cell foam never dries out once it gets wet. It is a lot cheaper, but it causes so many issues that it should only be used when everything is done specifically for it's use. I would never use it for anything, but I have read up on their websites on how it's supposed to be applied.
I had a client that wanted to buy and $800,000 home a couple years ago. She is a widow with the money to pay cash and this was just to live closer to her friends. She also has a very large house on the lake. She hired me to spend the day with her looking at the house and give her my opinion on what it would change a few things and make any repairs that where needed. The house was only 2 years old and the shingles where already falling apart. At first glance, the roof looked like it had been there 30 years. Rock was coming off the shingles, the corners where curling up and there was fungus darkening the roof. Inside the attic, there was 2 feet of open cell foam sprayed directly on the OSB roof decking. I pulled a little away to show her the damage, and the OSB was coming apart with mold growing on it. That house is still for sale, and the price is now a lot lower, but nobody is looking at it because of how bad that roof looks for an almost new house.
Macinnis
Gold Member
On my barn, they wrapped it in tyvek before they put the outside metal on. It is not stuck to the metal.
also, if you ever need to take the metal off, you should be able to remove/repair a piece of metal because all of the foam is not stuck to the metal.
maybe my Morton guy was thinking about open cell spray foam? Who knows…it’s water under the bridge at this point, for me at least.
I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am not a builder, I just spent the extra $300 to have my 60x60 barn wrapped in tyvek to keep the wind out and have the option to spray foam it if I ever win the lottery.
also, if you ever need to take the metal off, you should be able to remove/repair a piece of metal because all of the foam is not stuck to the metal.
maybe my Morton guy was thinking about open cell spray foam? Who knows…it’s water under the bridge at this point, for me at least.
I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am not a builder, I just spent the extra $300 to have my 60x60 barn wrapped in tyvek to keep the wind out and have the option to spray foam it if I ever win the lottery.
civilian
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OP, what is your snow load where you are in CO? Seems like 3/12 pitch might be too sallow. Not sure what code calls for. Also like the idea of making templates for cars, toys etc and the building and seeing how it fits. Also figure in extra pallets of stuff that happens to find their way into your building. (Trash cans, or storage shelves, work benches, etc along the walls. Or items others think they can store in there.) That eats up a couple of feet from that 16ft wide storage for the cars. I assume you want to be able to walk and not brush up against them.
That 18 to 20 ft boat on a trailer will not have a full size pick up in front of it unless the overhead door is wide enough to get a straight shot into the space. I had a 24ft wide by 48ft long storage building with a 12 ft wide door centered on the gable end. Getting that boat and truck situated like I described was possible, but I was trying to get it right next to the walls/posts. Not very easy. Trying to back a 16ft utility trailer in front of the boat trailer was even harder. Especially without a spotter.
I went from (2) 24ft x 48ft pole barns for storage and wood working shop to one 36ft deep by 72ft wide stick built, half for trailer, tractor, boat, camper storage and the other half heated for a wood working shop. Work shop isn't big enough for lumber storage. Because now I have a sawmill to harvest my own logs. Good luck in fitting everything in there. Jon
That 18 to 20 ft boat on a trailer will not have a full size pick up in front of it unless the overhead door is wide enough to get a straight shot into the space. I had a 24ft wide by 48ft long storage building with a 12 ft wide door centered on the gable end. Getting that boat and truck situated like I described was possible, but I was trying to get it right next to the walls/posts. Not very easy. Trying to back a 16ft utility trailer in front of the boat trailer was even harder. Especially without a spotter.
I went from (2) 24ft x 48ft pole barns for storage and wood working shop to one 36ft deep by 72ft wide stick built, half for trailer, tractor, boat, camper storage and the other half heated for a wood working shop. Work shop isn't big enough for lumber storage. Because now I have a sawmill to harvest my own logs. Good luck in fitting everything in there. Jon
3Ts
Elite Member
I do metal and wood working, definitely separate them! Preferably, have to go outside to go from one to the other. Even better is a breezeway between them.
If you have water to the building, do put in a toilet. You'll already have water and a drain, the convenience of the toilet is significant. I also have a washing machine in mine (no shower, but provisions for an outside shower) but I was a licensed pesticide operator when I built it and wanted a place to wash grungy clothes without using the one in the house.
Definitely spray foam the interior, it will also help seal air intrusion. It will also glue the whole building together to make it more secure.
Consider where you are going to put electrical outlets and run conduit under the floor to subpanels. You'll end up with shorter runs and it'll be out of the way. I have a panel on each side of the barn. If you have your camper outside be sure to run power to it.
Remember that the wall height is measured on the exterior and that the steel beams will take up about a foot of that and the purlins another half foot or more, so for a 12' wall height, you really end up with a little over 10' of interior overhead clearance at the wall.
If you have water to the building, do put in a toilet. You'll already have water and a drain, the convenience of the toilet is significant. I also have a washing machine in mine (no shower, but provisions for an outside shower) but I was a licensed pesticide operator when I built it and wanted a place to wash grungy clothes without using the one in the house.
Definitely spray foam the interior, it will also help seal air intrusion. It will also glue the whole building together to make it more secure.
Consider where you are going to put electrical outlets and run conduit under the floor to subpanels. You'll end up with shorter runs and it'll be out of the way. I have a panel on each side of the barn. If you have your camper outside be sure to run power to it.
Remember that the wall height is measured on the exterior and that the steel beams will take up about a foot of that and the purlins another half foot or more, so for a 12' wall height, you really end up with a little over 10' of interior overhead clearance at the wall.
ericm979
Super Member
10' walls will be short for a car lift. You need 12' at a minimum if you want to get it close to being able to walk under it. Of course if the lift will not be near a wall and you have an open ceiling there may be enough room.
I know a lot of guys leave spray foam exposed but it looks like it'd be a fire hazard to me, and there's no way to clean it when it gets dirty.
If the building is tall enough you can put in a mezzanine for storage space. It's a cheap way to add square footage.
Think about how you will heat and cool it. In CO you might want radiant heat in the floor.
I know a lot of guys leave spray foam exposed but it looks like it'd be a fire hazard to me, and there's no way to clean it when it gets dirty.
If the building is tall enough you can put in a mezzanine for storage space. It's a cheap way to add square footage.
Think about how you will heat and cool it. In CO you might want radiant heat in the floor.
LD1
Epic Contributor
Have you ever tried to burn the closed cell stuff?
GSVette
Gold Member
I built a 40x60x14 so that I had sufficient wall height for a 12’h x 16’w high main door (allows motorhome and Case 580E in with clearance as well as allowing for a 4 post car lift to store my two babies on).
I went with commercial girts so that I could easily install R21 batts in the walls and OSB to finish walls. Put R19 in the ceiling ( which I left open above the trusses). Heat and A/C is provided by a Mr Cool diy mini split with a propane fireplace for ‘boost’ heat. 3/4 bath and W/D install for maximum convenience.
Of course I wish I’d gone bigger in retrospect but as mentioned in other posts I can add off the back or lean to’s at some point.
Always looking to improve storage and organization in mine-it’s a work in progress.
I went with commercial girts so that I could easily install R21 batts in the walls and OSB to finish walls. Put R19 in the ceiling ( which I left open above the trusses). Heat and A/C is provided by a Mr Cool diy mini split with a propane fireplace for ‘boost’ heat. 3/4 bath and W/D install for maximum convenience.
Of course I wish I’d gone bigger in retrospect but as mentioned in other posts I can add off the back or lean to’s at some point.
Always looking to improve storage and organization in mine-it’s a work in progress.
GSVette
Gold Member
It is a wood pole barn-I considered steel at one point but felt that the benefits of wood construction in terms of interior finishing outweighed any benefits that I could come up with for the steel building.
Picture shows ‘ commercial’ girts and insulation installation.
They are also called ‘bookshelf’ girts ( for obvious reasons).
Picture shows ‘ commercial’ girts and insulation installation.
They are also called ‘bookshelf’ girts ( for obvious reasons).
huh, never seen it that way. love it. much stiffer wall package than 2x4 on the flat.
i was thinking steel to keep the overall height of the building lower and still keep good interior height for the center bay. also the cost for materials seems not that much different and the steel comes all ready to bolt together.
i was thinking steel to keep the overall height of the building lower and still keep good interior height for the center bay. also the cost for materials seems not that much different and the steel comes all ready to bolt together.
GSVette
Gold Member
You definitely want to consider the interior finish issues associated with a steel building (I.e. installation/retention of insulation, installation of drywall/OSB/Plywood, running of plumbing and or electrical in walls, etc.).
I’m not sure you’re going to get a great reduction in overall height with steel- I have a 4/12 pitch roof designed for a 65psf snow load-with 14’ walls the peak roof height is around 24-25’. As can be seen from the photo, color selection and siting has a lot to do with how much ‘presence’ the building has.
You certainly won’t go wrong with steel. I do think the permit/inspection process was easier as pole barns are common construction around here.
I’m not sure you’re going to get a great reduction in overall height with steel- I have a 4/12 pitch roof designed for a 65psf snow load-with 14’ walls the peak roof height is around 24-25’. As can be seen from the photo, color selection and siting has a lot to do with how much ‘presence’ the building has.
You certainly won’t go wrong with steel. I do think the permit/inspection process was easier as pole barns are common construction around here.
kirkawilson
Platinum Member
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You might find some help here: Extension Store
with the 10 ft eave and 60 wide, i have about 18 feet peak height with a 3/12 and 20 with a 4/12 pitch and the center bay max height is about 15. at 12 feet wide in the center bay we still have 12 foot of interior height minimum at 3/12 and 14 at 4/12. with a truss wall height at 14, its 20 feet tall if you put the roof the 40ft way. but it will block a lot more view from the house, as its a wall 60x20 instead of a triangle 60x20 from the house. the 60 foot direction would be 4 feet higher at the peak for wood truss. all approximations.
the wood frame does make interior easier though.
the wood frame does make interior easier though.
GSVette
Gold Member
Luckily my site will not impact the view from the home ( when we build in a year or two). That was one of the considerations when we did our site planning.
yea, i could have paid about the same money for 5 acres raw around here as we did for this one with a nice house, well and septic, which gives me money to build this. its about 1700 feet long and 150 feet wide at the front and 100 feet wide at the back. house about 2/3s back from the road pasture in front and back. back is steeper uphill away from the house and front is a nice gentle incline down to the road from the house.
ponytug
Super Member
If the barn is going to interfere with your view, have you thought of putting it behind the house, uphill a bit, where you might just level out a pad for it? I know that there is a price for everything, but sometimes it can be done with equipment that you have or can readily get ahold of.
All the best,
Peter
All the best,
Peter
ponytug
Super Member
Seems reasonable logic to me!
Alien
Elite Member
My barn has progressed to the stage where sheeting is next. I also plan to put a hoist in the middle bay .
